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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Desperate plea for money - WWYD

732 replies

Bittornhelp · 12/01/2017 14:21

More of a WWYD really - OH and I are feeling very torn. NC'd as potentially identifying....

Sorry it's a bit long - I've tried to summarise the story to date without drip feeding - I fully appreciate that I only have OH's side of the story in this, as we only met a couple of years after much of this took place. However, we've been together ten years, and I would trust his word as he sees it.

OH separated from his first wife in 2006 - they'd been together ten years, but mostly unhappily. OH stayed so long for her two children, who were about 2 and 3 when they got together, and who he saw as his own. ExW was by all accounts not the most stable of individuals - would dramatically estrange herself from friends and family the most trivial of reasons, and was often emotionally manipulative / abusive towards OH. She also had issues with reckless expenditure - examples being blowing a £60k inheritance, and repeatedly running up credit card debt that OH at one point risked bankruptcy over in trying to pay off (just to fill in the gaps, she was a SAHM for all this period). OH paid the mortgage and put the children through private school - when they finally did split, he basically walked away with nothing. ExW immediately blocked all access to the children - and OH had no right to access, given they were neither biologically or legally his own. I know that losing access to them was and remains one of the greatest pains and regrets of his life.

A few years down the line the younger son (will call DS for ease) then about 17 or 18 got back in touch via social media - which OH was delighted by. As teens do, DS would ask for money from time to time; an uncharitable person might say he asked for money every time he was in touch. OH would always oblige - partly out of guilt at how things ended, partly in the hope that this might act as a "bridge" back into face-to-face contact one day.

Now the DS is 22, and despite having asked for and received money on an ad hoc basis for all these years (probably talking about £1,000 "pocket money" a year), has never committed to the beers or football matches etc OH has on several occasion gently suggested - contact has only ever been via email for all this time. After their last exchange when OH coughed up for driving lessons, OH decided that this would be the last time he paid out, given that DS is now an adult at 22, and the relationship he had hoped might one day result in doing so hasn't come about.

Anyway, to the dilemma at hand - the other day out of the blue we got this:

Hi Dad, would you be able to give me some more financial support ASAP, with me and mum living at 's and basically being homeless I'm seriously struggling now, got credit cards and overdrafts to pay off and I'm seriously starting to have a breakdown. I have no one else to ask and I feel bad enough having to ask.

In previous communications, he had mentioned that ExW lost the house "for no reason", and that they were then evicted from emergency accommodation because the landlord apparently "changed his mind". AFAIK, he and ExW are now crammed in with a family friend, with no prospect of moving on any time soon. The presumption is that ExW didn't keep up with mortgage or rental payments - though OH had left her with 6-figure equity in the house. OH also strongly suspects that DS has gotten himself into debt by putting his wages towards ExW's living costs, as he has said that ExW now has depression and (still) can't work. He's also said that the older sister had just escaped an abusive relationship, is now a single mum, and also has depression (I'm not sure what her living circumstances are), and that he is struggling to stay positive for everyone.

By all accounts he is and always was a nice lad - I'll admit to having a look at his Facebook profile, and he looks a lovely young man, very sporty, involved in the community and a very hand-on uncle, who it sounds has been dealt a shit hand due to ExW's financial situation and has perhaps found himself in over his head as a result.

However, he also sounds quite immature where finances are concerned, and in need more of some proper financial advice than he is more cash at this time - OH (in the right industry to advise) is more than willing to provide practical advice in how he can get best get the situation under control, and wants to ask for a face-to-face meeting to help him talk things through and advise on next steps. He's wary of providing further financial support for all the obvious reasons - i.e. potentially being played, money likely diverting towards ExW, cash in the short-term just proving a drop in the ocean, and not really helping DS in terms of life lessons in the long run anyway, etc....

That said, in DS's last communication a couple of months ago he was cheerily asking for driving lessons, not in the midst of a full-blown debt crisis - so who's to say any of the above is even true...? There wasn't even a "please"...

It's hard to know at a distance quite what to believe and what to do to help....

WWYD for the best in this situation please??

OP posts:
AcrossthePond55 · 28/06/2017 17:38

Here's my 2 pence on the email:

I'm sorry you're struggling at the moment - but I feel like I've already made my position on this very clear.

As you know I was thrilled when you got back in touch - I'd hoped that me helping and advising you would lead to us rebuilding some kind of relationship. I am and will always be on hand if you would like me to help you with debt reduction and financial management - however it has become clear that I only seem to hear from you when you need money.

Please have a good long think about my role in your life and how you view me. As you clearly are not in pursuing a relationship, then you need to understand that it is not appropriate for hurtful when you to continue to contact me and ask for money particularly in the amounts you are thinking of

Realistically, if you don't have money for driving lessons, you won't have money for a decent car, or for petrol and expensive insurance premiums. I can only think you are planning on asking me to fund these for you I realise sports is your passion, but as you are finding it's also a highly competitive field to break into you will need a plan B and a part-time job to plug the income gaps and allow you to save up for the things you want and need.

I'll leave this with you to think about – but if it is really all about the bottom line, I’d prefer you didn’t contact me again.

AcrossthePond55 · 28/06/2017 17:57

Oops! The edits I did were to remove things that I felt were things that were a bit accusatory. I think they will derail him from the true message. Sure, he probably is thinking that Dad will fund a car or future cash, but the email makes clear that the '1st National Bank of Dad' is now closed. No need to make a dig.

DH and I have been in a position in which we have had to help our DS2 out of a financial bind more than once. He has PTSD issues that at times overwhelm his ability to manage his bills. What has been suggested is pretty much what we do. We all sit down together and he must show us his outstanding bills, bank statements, and his pay slips. We work together to figure a plan to get his bills paid off on a priority basis. If there are bills that MUST be paid (car reg, insurance) and he does not have the ability to pay them by the due date, we will go ahead and pay for him (we don't give him the cash to pay it) but he must pay us back on a schedule (which he does). Other bills must wait until he has funds to make payments and if he accrues a late charge, that's the price one pays. So far it's worked, but DS2 isn't trying to take advantage as your DH's DS is. He's someone who is struggling with PTSD. The thing is that he NEVER asks us directly for money, he just finally comes and admits that he's overwhelmed (or we see it in him and ask). Obviously, I wouldn't offer DH's DS money or to pay a bill for him, that situation is very different from ours!

Whenever I see young people who want to 'break into' sports or entertainment I always heave a big sigh. They just don't realize that for every opening there are 1000 candidates who are better qualified and/or connected. My DS1 was sure he'd be a 'rock god'. He broke his neck to make a success in the music industry for 8 years (18-26) before he realized it wasn't going to happen and got a non performing job in the music industry that pays well and he enjoys. But he was always self-supporting either with a band or 'stop gap' jobs and although we may have fed him at times and given him cash at Xmas & birthdays instead of gifts he never came to us to pay his bills. In this case the DS needs to be told what we told ours "Pursue your dreams but have a good back up plan by training or getting an education first".

milliemolliemou · 28/06/2017 18:18

Sorry, but even here in the benighted countryside there are jobs at pubs and supermarkets. Youngsters either walk in or cycle to these jobs.

hollyisalovelyname · 28/06/2017 18:31

Where is his real dad?
Can he not bankroll his son?

AlternativeTentacle · 28/06/2017 18:34

Does anyone call themselves a 'hardworking independent man?'

NoSquirrels · 28/06/2017 18:46

I think your/DH's response is too nice by half. I'd go direct, as pastaofmuppets suggested.

If it's a sports related thing, he could look for specific grants related to that. Prince's Trust exists to award grants to young people with a dream and a plan. He could cycle, walk or lift share to get a summer job. There will be shelf-stacking jobs- he has to realise that if he can't figure out a plan himself without cash from a stranger, then it's not going to happen.

Would your DH sponsor a teen in a different country who wants a leg up, who contacted him out of the blue? If not, why is this different- he doesn't know this young man, he misses the small boy he was.

Don't give money, be blunt but fair.

Bittornhelp · 28/06/2017 19:00

Oh FFS. OH is prevaricating and saying he wants to offer to teach him to to drive, to "call his bluff".

Forgetting that:

a) We already did that months ago, and (predictably) there was complete silence on that; and
b) It's my car and no way is he using it for that, even if DSS did happen to "bite"!
c) His mum has a car and apparently he can't learn in that with her, as he might "pick up bad habits", apparently...

I'm so pissed off with this - both of them now seem to be contributing to this unhealthy dynamic and just prolonging the same nasty little charade...

Personally I just want to draw a line and either ignore / give a firm now - I'm sick of these grasping little poison pen landing on us every other month and putting the cat among the pigeon's each time...

OP posts:
Bittornhelp · 28/06/2017 19:01

*a firm "no", even

OP posts:
AlternativeTentacle · 28/06/2017 19:08

Well if he taught him, he would still pick up bad habits!

Gingerandgivingzerofucks · 28/06/2017 19:13

Your poor OH :( He must be so damned hurt.

I honestly think this young man only wants money and he sounds like he wants a LOT. Pointless teaching him to drive, he won't be able to afford the insurance. A mate of 26 just got a quote of £2500.

He's taking you for a mug saying his job doesn't start again til September. Whatever! He could take a year out and get earning. I reckon most 22 year olds in my town could walk down the high street and find work. TKMaxx is full of my sixth formers, as is Richer Sounds. I don't know how he can't get out and find bar work, whatever.

Sorry, OP, he's taking the piss, big time. His mum can look after him, she's the one that prevented contact all those years ago. Reap what you sow and all that.

AnathemaPulsifer · 28/06/2017 19:16

I think your draft is perfect except the last line could be misinterpreted:

I'll leave this with you to think about – but if it is really all about the bottom line, I’d prefer you didn’t contact me again.

Instead I would say:

I'll leave this with you to think about – but if it is really all about the money, I’d prefer you didn’t contact me again. On the other hand if you want my support in non-monetary ways I would be pleased to meet up and help.

AnathemaPulsifer · 28/06/2017 19:17

Crossposted. I can completely see why you've had enough!

Puzzledandpissedoff · 28/06/2017 19:27

both of them now seem to be contributing to this unhealthy dynamic and just prolonging the same nasty little charade...

Sadly, it appears you're right; the only thing that would stop this permanently is to ignore the messages and your DH doesn't seem to want to do that

Is there anything to be gained by asking him WHY? I appreciate he once thought of DSS as his own and treated him accordingly, but that was a long time ago; the fact remains that he isn't his son, it's years now since he was married to the lad's mother and DSS couldn't make it clearer that he simply doesn't want to know him except for money

So again - why does he feel he has to do this? Hmm

Hortonlovesahoo · 28/06/2017 19:35

I can completely understand your frustration OP and I'm agreeing with you. It's time to draw a line under it

Bittornhelp · 28/06/2017 19:43

Puzzled - in his mind, DSS was his own, he knew him from a babe in in arms before he and the mum got "officially" together while DSS was still a tot.

If it were his own biologically related estranged child getting back in touch, I don't think his reaction would be any different - to OH it's one and the same thing.

Very, very difficult position to be in - I've made my views known to OH, but can't force his hand on this one... Any further discussion between us today will lead to upset, so am venting on MN for the moment!!

I hate this family.

OP posts:
LazyDailyMailJournos · 28/06/2017 19:45

Puzzledandpissedoff - I agree about the 'neediness', but I'm mindful that OP's DH is extremely reluctant to be blunt - because he is desperately trying to keep a small flame of hope alive that this kid wants to know him. I don't doubt that my suggested response - or something similar - could elicit further requests from this chap, but I wonder if OP's H needs to see more evidence that he's trying it on? That despite a reasonably upfront email, the guy is still holding his hand out?

OP, you must be so frustrated. I think you need to be pretty blunt with your DH and remind him that you've already been down the offering lessons route. I also think that you need to, gently, tell him that the time has come to grasp the nettle and call 'DS' bluff by asking him straight out what he's playing at.

I agree with other posters that the mos sensible course of action would be to ignore the messages and not respond, but I suspect that your DH won't want to do that - and that he needs some kind of 'closure' first.

Bittornhelp · 28/06/2017 19:48

Lazy am really grateful for your contribution - thank you very much for you insight, you are really on the money there with your latest summary...

OP posts:
Bittornhelp · 28/06/2017 19:50

And to Puzzled as well - and everyone who is posting. Every single person's comment from start of thread onwards has been read and contemplated ten times over by this point.

OP posts:
Smitff · 28/06/2017 19:59

I've been following your thread from the start OP. No advice to offer that hasn't already been given, but I do want to say that your OH is lucky to have an understanding partner in you. You both sound like lovely, decent people trying to find the correct balance.

Good luck. I hope things work out in a way that doesn't upset your OH.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 28/06/2017 20:07

No need for thanks, Bittorn; I guess we're all just trying to support you - as we ourselves have often been helped - through some pretty awful times Flowers

Journos I absolutely see where you're coming from about the DH trying to keep some sort of flame alive, and even whether he needs more "proof" of how badly he's being conned. There is, though, that old saying about there being none so blind as those who don't wish to see, and I worry that his tunnel vision is starting to affect his relationship with OP. Certainly the DH doesn't deserve this - but then, does OP either?

If the DH bashing his head against a wall hasn't done any good after all this time, it might be that he only answer is to walk away from the wall ...

CerealShopper · 28/06/2017 20:21

Sorry if I've missed this bit, but where is DS's real dad in all this?

Bittornhelp · 28/06/2017 20:40

Not been on the scene in a long-time, AFAIK.

For once, I wish the Daily Mail would pick up this thread - it would solve a multitude of problems....

OP posts:
aaaaargghhhhelpme · 28/06/2017 20:45

I'm sorry op. Your DH sounds lovely. And I can see why he's clinging on to any hope at all that dss might be real and not be using him. It's very hard to stand by and watch.

I guess you can only reiterate to him what many people have said. Where will it end. What is this money for. Why won't he meet.

It's so sad.

Talkingmouse · 28/06/2017 22:07

Absolutely NO.

Any email should be short, constructive but a firm no money.

Sadly there will be a back story as to why he will not meet: in person he is clearly absolutely fine for money; or needs money for drugs; or money if for his mum...who knows.

Hang in there and don't feel guilty.

DuggeeHugs · 28/06/2017 22:12

I've read this thread with amazement at the DSS, sadness for your DH and frustration for you.

The saddest part is that DSS can't see what a wonderful man your DH is and that the relationship he is so disinterested in would be worth more than all the cash he wants (and more) to most other people.

I really hope this situation resolves without too much more hurt for you and your DH Flowers