Desperate plea for money - WWYD

[Bittornhelp]

More of a WWYD really - OH and I are feeling very torn. NC'd as potentially identifying....

Sorry it's a bit long - I've tried to summarise the story to date without drip feeding - I fully appreciate that I only have OH's side of the story in this, as we only met a couple of years after much of this took place. However, we've been together ten years, and I would trust his word as he sees it.

OH separated from his first wife in 2006 - they'd been together ten years, but mostly unhappily. OH stayed so long for her two children, who were about 2 and 3 when they got together, and who he saw as his own. ExW was by all accounts not the most stable of individuals - would dramatically estrange herself from friends and family the most trivial of reasons, and was often emotionally manipulative / abusive towards OH. She also had issues with reckless expenditure - examples being blowing a £60k inheritance, and repeatedly running up credit card debt that OH at one point risked bankruptcy over in trying to pay off (just to fill in the gaps, she was a SAHM for all this period). OH paid the mortgage and put the children through private school - when they finally did split, he basically walked away with nothing. ExW immediately blocked all access to the children - and OH had no right to access, given they were neither biologically or legally his own. I know that losing access to them was and remains one of the greatest pains and regrets of his life.

A few years down the line the younger son (will call DS for ease) then about 17 or 18 got back in touch via social media - which OH was delighted by. As teens do, DS would ask for money from time to time; an uncharitable person might say he asked for money every time he was in touch. OH would always oblige - partly out of guilt at how things ended, partly in the hope that this might act as a "bridge" back into face-to-face contact one day.

Now the DS is 22, and despite having asked for and received money on an ad hoc basis for all these years (probably talking about £1,000 "pocket money" a year), has never committed to the beers or football matches etc OH has on several occasion gently suggested - contact has only ever been via email for all this time. After their last exchange when OH coughed up for driving lessons, OH decided that this would be the last time he paid out, given that DS is now an adult at 22, and the relationship he had hoped might one day result in doing so hasn't come about.

Anyway, to the dilemma at hand - the other day out of the blue we got this:

Hi Dad, would you be able to give me some more financial support ASAP, with me and mum living at 's and basically being homeless I'm seriously struggling now, got credit cards and overdrafts to pay off and I'm seriously starting to have a breakdown. I have no one else to ask and I feel bad enough having to ask.

In previous communications, he had mentioned that ExW lost the house "for no reason", and that they were then evicted from emergency accommodation because the landlord apparently "changed his mind". AFAIK, he and ExW are now crammed in with a family friend, with no prospect of moving on any time soon. The presumption is that ExW didn't keep up with mortgage or rental payments - though OH had left her with 6-figure equity in the house. OH also strongly suspects that DS has gotten himself into debt by putting his wages towards ExW's living costs, as he has said that ExW now has depression and (still) can't work. He's also said that the older sister had just escaped an abusive relationship, is now a single mum, and also has depression (I'm not sure what her living circumstances are), and that he is struggling to stay positive for everyone.

By all accounts he is and always was a nice lad - I'll admit to having a look at his Facebook profile, and he looks a lovely young man, very sporty, involved in the community and a very hand-on uncle, who it sounds has been dealt a shit hand due to ExW's financial situation and has perhaps found himself in over his head as a result.

However, he also sounds quite immature where finances are concerned, and in need more of some proper financial advice than he is more cash at this time - OH (in the right industry to advise) is more than willing to provide practical advice in how he can get best get the situation under control, and wants to ask for a face-to-face meeting to help him talk things through and advise on next steps. He's wary of providing further financial support for all the obvious reasons - i.e. potentially being played, money likely diverting towards ExW, cash in the short-term just proving a drop in the ocean, and not really helping DS in terms of life lessons in the long run anyway, etc....

That said, in DS's last communication a couple of months ago he was cheerily asking for driving lessons, not in the midst of a full-blown debt crisis - so who's to say any of the above is even true...? There wasn't even a "please"...

It's hard to know at a distance quite what to believe and what to do to help....

WWYD for the best in this situation please??

[mickeysminnie]

Did your dh tell him the last time he asked that it would be the last time he would give him money?

[pho3be]

I would email back & say 'honestly I hoped we'd have some sort of relationship by now after helping you out financially all this time, Im hurt because you seem to only contact me when you want money? I can't help you out financially anymore but ad ever, id love to meet up & support you emotionally. Love Dad

[catkind]

I wouldn't pour more money into the black hole of ex's finances. I would see if you can offer advice or practical help. Would your OH be able to consider offering for the DS to move in with him for a while?

What's the story here anyway? Sounds to me like the DS really needs to get set up on his own two feet. Is he working? Why is he getting into debt?

[Bittornhelp]

We would not be in a position to offer him a home at this time - we currently rent out our spare room (that's how "rich" we are!), and have just started a new contract with a lodger.

Also, I have never met this person - the son of my husband's unstable ex-wife, so it would be a massive undertaking, and one that I'd be reluctant to take on.

The friend is a long-standing family friend rather than "mates" of his own age, but yes they are living rather at her mercy.

On the other hand, he is 22, qualified in his field and works full-time - so you'd think he would be able to find something affordable on //www.spareroom.co.uk or something.

[BarbarianMum]

I would be very, very wary of getting too involved (and esp offering a place to live) without getting to know him better. He is not the same boy your dh remembers as a son, he's an adult now.

[JanuaryMoods]

It will never stop. Your DH decided it had to come to an end and should stick to that decision.

[toptoe]

I would want a face to face meeting if this was my step son. I'd ask him to bring along all his debt paperwork and present his financial problems, so that I could give him advice on how to get himself out of it.

I would advise him also to speak to a debt charity and CAB.

I would also be very straight and say that whilst he is living with his mum he is likely to continue getting into debt and that from now on he should find his own path in life - neither lending to his mum or taking her advice re. finances.

Then, if he sorted it all out and needed a deposit for a flat I would lend him (give him) that and say 'now that is all I can give you - you have to sort it yourself from now on.'

[Peanutbutterrules]

So no contact for years, then contact via social media to ask for money and never agreeing to meet up.

Cough...cough...umm no. Time to stop. If he wants a relationship then it needs to start with meeting up, not cash changing hands. You really have no idea about whats going on but it doesn't sound right to me.

[Mummyoflittledragon]

I think you and dh can see by now you don't fix money problems by giving more money. Ds and dh definitely need to meet and discuss the situation so that dh can give him some sound advice and words of wisdom. I'm inclined to think his ex may also putting ds up to asking for money. Or else he's living what he's learnt.

[ChristmasEvePJs]

A face to face meeting is the least the young man could do but I agree with everyone saying no more financial support. Had they struck up a close relationship again then perhaps but not at the moment.

[EweAreHere]

It would be a NO from me.

[toptoe]

Sorry to be clear any loan/money given would be after he took on the advice and put it intlo action and proved it by meeting your dh face to face and having paperwork etc. He'd have to jump through hoops to get it.

[rallytog1]

Are you SURE it is the son himself who's been contacting your dh? It couldn't be the ex-w inventing an online persona to get to his cash could it? Sorry, I know that's a very cynical take on things but I'm really suspicious that all the contact has been electronic - he could be sending the money to anyone.

[Bittornhelp]

OH wants to send the attached, which we worked on together - the idea being to offer practical advise and also sew the seed of questioning his situation in his mind, without completely disparaging the woman who is still the only mum he's got.

Any thoughts...?

Dear DS,

I’m truly sorry to hear that things are so bad at the moment.

I have thought long and hard about how to respond to your message. After our last exchange, I’d decided to decline any further requests for financial assistance – you are now a working adult, and my hopes that we might one day rebuild our relationship still hasn’t happened.

However, it’s clear from your message that you have gotten yourself somewhat in over your head financially. How much of this was actually your spending and how much aiming to provide financial support to your mum, I can only guess at.

It sounds like what you really need at this stage is some proper, real-world financial advice far more than you do cash. If you’re struggling with overdrafts and credit card debt to this extent, I’m sure you realise that any money I or anyone else were able to provide would be just a “drop in the ocean” - particularly if nothing is being done to get the overall situation under control.

I’m also not altogether confident that any cash provided would not also go towards funding your mum’s situation, rather than directly assisting you – which was always my aim in helping out while you were still in your teens.

You’ll understand that I wouldn’t be in a position to assist without knowing a lot more about the current situation. i.e. how did the debt pile up in the short time you’ve had credit available? Exactly how much are we talking about? Are your current outgoings still more than your incomings and is the debt currently being cut down / added to still? What is owing and where?

It’s time to take a deep breath, and start thinking constructively here.

I can’t pay your debt off for you – however, I can help you sort out this debt situation by dealing with the right agencies, and help get you on your feet again that way. I had to do it for myself once, but I can’t do it at a distance. I think we need to meet and chat it through.

Finally, it also sounds like you need some distance from your living situation, and to separate your situation from that of your mum’s – once the financial situation is back under control, renting a room via //www.spareroom.co.uk with other people your age is affordable and would be really worth considering. It sounds from your tone that her situation is really dragging you down mentally, physically, emotionally and financially – and this is absolutely not your mess to sort out. Deep down, I’m sure you realise that people are not just randomly evicted “for no reason” after twenty odd years. There is much more I could probably say on this, however at 22 you are more than old enough to wake up and smell the coffee as to the real reasons why you might be where you are now.

This is probably not the immediate response you wanted to hear, but I want to provide any advice or guidance on a practical level that I can as to how you can best move forward from this,

Love,

Dad

[starsorwater]

No. He is an adult. You would not be helping him. He needs to take control of his income/outgoings.

[OscuraGolondrina]

user Really? How long should this 22yr old get a monthly allowance for? Until he's 30? 40? It doesn't matter how much money the OP's DH has, he has more than adequately provided for this family, even if they were his biological children I wouldn't advocate continuing to shell out for adults who refuse to take responsibility for supporting themselves. 22 is plenty old enough to cut the damned financial apron strings.
My SM has a similar situation with her granddaughter, a grown woman of 23 with two dc and another on the way who seems to think my SM should support her and her children because she 'can afford it' while GD refuses to takes responsibility for her own choices. It's constant 'pay my house deposit, pay my rent, pay mypower bills, buy me a new phone' and always some excuse as to why she can't pay her own bills. SM has finally cut her off because she realised she was just enabling this behaviour and got sick of just being a walking wallet for others to dip into whenever they felt like it.

[AdoraBell]

Certainly no cash. If OH still wants to give money do it by paying for something, like a large grocery shop fe, something that's needed but doesn't mean handing over money.

And yes, the financial advice is very valuable offer both in terms of cost and giving DS the tools to get himself out of debt.

[AdoraBell]

Oops, hadn't seen your update.

[Fluffycloudland77]

It'd be a no from me too. He might be a nice lad but he hasn't exactly shown it thus far with his dad.

[Soubriquet]

That sounds like a fair letter

If the Ds takes it nicely

Likely hood will be, he won't like being told no and lash out but there we go. You can't help that

[DartmoorDoughnut]

Fab email but I would stop after the "you're now a working adult" in first para, no need to mention lack of relationship.

[AdoraBell]

That letter looks perfect, reasonable, positive and constructive. I would send that if I were in your position.

[OscuraGolondrina]

OP, missed the update. I think that looks like a very reasonable response to the ds and puts the ball in his court as to how he wishes to proceed. I hope it all works out for you.

[RogueStar01]

i think the email you've drafted is perfect, that's exactly how I'd respond. You want a relationship with some functioning adults? It's right here, come and get it. You want another handout and are being cynical, sorry that's a no. It might not go over well now, but maybe down the line DS will see sense.

[sonjadog]

I think it is a good email until the last bit, from "It sounds like your situation.." to the end of that paragraph. I think that bit will get his back up as it a very obviously a criticism of his mother, and I think it will take away the power of the rest of the email. Nor do I think it is necessary for you to include that part - what you have written about distancing himself at the start of that paragraph is enough to get the message across.