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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Desperate plea for money - WWYD

732 replies

Bittornhelp · 12/01/2017 14:21

More of a WWYD really - OH and I are feeling very torn. NC'd as potentially identifying....

Sorry it's a bit long - I've tried to summarise the story to date without drip feeding - I fully appreciate that I only have OH's side of the story in this, as we only met a couple of years after much of this took place. However, we've been together ten years, and I would trust his word as he sees it.

OH separated from his first wife in 2006 - they'd been together ten years, but mostly unhappily. OH stayed so long for her two children, who were about 2 and 3 when they got together, and who he saw as his own. ExW was by all accounts not the most stable of individuals - would dramatically estrange herself from friends and family the most trivial of reasons, and was often emotionally manipulative / abusive towards OH. She also had issues with reckless expenditure - examples being blowing a £60k inheritance, and repeatedly running up credit card debt that OH at one point risked bankruptcy over in trying to pay off (just to fill in the gaps, she was a SAHM for all this period). OH paid the mortgage and put the children through private school - when they finally did split, he basically walked away with nothing. ExW immediately blocked all access to the children - and OH had no right to access, given they were neither biologically or legally his own. I know that losing access to them was and remains one of the greatest pains and regrets of his life.

A few years down the line the younger son (will call DS for ease) then about 17 or 18 got back in touch via social media - which OH was delighted by. As teens do, DS would ask for money from time to time; an uncharitable person might say he asked for money every time he was in touch. OH would always oblige - partly out of guilt at how things ended, partly in the hope that this might act as a "bridge" back into face-to-face contact one day.

Now the DS is 22, and despite having asked for and received money on an ad hoc basis for all these years (probably talking about £1,000 "pocket money" a year), has never committed to the beers or football matches etc OH has on several occasion gently suggested - contact has only ever been via email for all this time. After their last exchange when OH coughed up for driving lessons, OH decided that this would be the last time he paid out, given that DS is now an adult at 22, and the relationship he had hoped might one day result in doing so hasn't come about.

Anyway, to the dilemma at hand - the other day out of the blue we got this:

Hi Dad, would you be able to give me some more financial support ASAP, with me and mum living at 's and basically being homeless I'm seriously struggling now, got credit cards and overdrafts to pay off and I'm seriously starting to have a breakdown. I have no one else to ask and I feel bad enough having to ask.

In previous communications, he had mentioned that ExW lost the house "for no reason", and that they were then evicted from emergency accommodation because the landlord apparently "changed his mind". AFAIK, he and ExW are now crammed in with a family friend, with no prospect of moving on any time soon. The presumption is that ExW didn't keep up with mortgage or rental payments - though OH had left her with 6-figure equity in the house. OH also strongly suspects that DS has gotten himself into debt by putting his wages towards ExW's living costs, as he has said that ExW now has depression and (still) can't work. He's also said that the older sister had just escaped an abusive relationship, is now a single mum, and also has depression (I'm not sure what her living circumstances are), and that he is struggling to stay positive for everyone.

By all accounts he is and always was a nice lad - I'll admit to having a look at his Facebook profile, and he looks a lovely young man, very sporty, involved in the community and a very hand-on uncle, who it sounds has been dealt a shit hand due to ExW's financial situation and has perhaps found himself in over his head as a result.

However, he also sounds quite immature where finances are concerned, and in need more of some proper financial advice than he is more cash at this time - OH (in the right industry to advise) is more than willing to provide practical advice in how he can get best get the situation under control, and wants to ask for a face-to-face meeting to help him talk things through and advise on next steps. He's wary of providing further financial support for all the obvious reasons - i.e. potentially being played, money likely diverting towards ExW, cash in the short-term just proving a drop in the ocean, and not really helping DS in terms of life lessons in the long run anyway, etc....

That said, in DS's last communication a couple of months ago he was cheerily asking for driving lessons, not in the midst of a full-blown debt crisis - so who's to say any of the above is even true...? There wasn't even a "please"...

It's hard to know at a distance quite what to believe and what to do to help....

WWYD for the best in this situation please??

OP posts:
HotelEuphoria · 28/06/2017 12:10

Can your OH not reply this time through FB messenger rather than email, to ensure the messages actually go to the DS - this will weed out his mother if it is her that is sending the messages.

I am confused by what he is actually doing at the moment or not doing, can you enlighten us?

Is he still a student? one that works during term time only? or does he work now and has student loans and credit cards/overdrafts to pay back?

BarbaraofSeville · 28/06/2017 12:11

*Hope you're okay. I am in need of you to believe and invest in me. I have tried and tried and tried to get work, but I have been rejected every time. I have now been given interviews with , but because I do not have a full driving license my applications have not been taken any further. I absolutely hate asking, it massively hurts my ego to do so as I am a hard working, independent man, but I really need you to invest in me as I have no one else to ask. Once I get back into work I'll pay it back I promise - I am not one to take advantage because after all, I do want to make everyone proud, but I need help from you.

My ambition and my goals are to be an coach and sports performance trainer, and I will get there with your help 100%.This last year I have accomplished so much, but there's only so much I can do with £25 in my account and I do not start again until September. I can't even afford to travel anywhere*

This sounds like one of those Nigerian Princes who promise to release millions of inheritence to you if you send them a few quid.

unfortunateevents · 28/06/2017 12:12

Sorry, some of this may have been covered but the thread is very lengthy now and things may have changed - in January he was qualified and working, why is he now out of work and what is all this business about term-time work? I thought he was finished with studying? Also, I have re-read that his mother has a car but didn't want to let him practise in it? Now that he has had lessons (presumably, as your DH gave him money for them) why is he still not allowed in the car?

Bittornhelp · 28/06/2017 12:12

I'm not entirely sure of the current set up, not ever having met or spoken to this person directly before - my understanding was that he was doing a full-time coaching role and was trying to break into the "big leagues", but from the last response it seems maybe it's not full time after all?

I don't honestly know.

OP posts:
Baalam · 28/06/2017 12:13

ok if your dh still wants to give money he needs to sit down with this lad with a pen and paper and go through how he can help

sports performance trainer is impossible to get into without lots of relevant experience. He needs to put that on the back burner for now or perfhaps think of doing a college course in sports performance for a year or so?

EmeraldIsle100 · 28/06/2017 12:13

Very tough position for your DH. I don't believe for one minute that a 22 year old wrote that letter. Like others I wouldn't give a penny unless he made arrangements to meet up.

TheDogAteMyGoatskinVellum · 28/06/2017 12:14

That's nice Barbara, but since OP has provided no information about where ex-DSS lives, your anecdote about what's available in your area is proof of absolutely nothing. Do people honestly not understand that there is considerable variation in local job markets across the UK?

Bittornhelp · 28/06/2017 12:17

He would not live in a depressed area - small town in SE England

OP posts:
TheDogAteMyGoatskinVellum · 28/06/2017 12:20

That's useful information OP. Hopefully saves people making any more assumptions. Is the unskilled job market decent there then?

BarbarianMum · 28/06/2017 12:20

Learning to drive won't help you get a job unless you end up working for a company with pool cars, or can afford a car of your own and insurance for it.

Your dh has invested a huge amount in this guy over the years. Where is the return?

PoochSmooch · 28/06/2017 12:20

I think in your shoes I would consider making an investment in him.

I'd invest in sending him a train ticket to get him to your place, where your husband can sit down with him and work out a way forward. What fiercely independent man could turn down such an opportunity?

He will never use it. He doesn't want help to get himself on track. He wants to tap an easy touch, and it's too much effort to even use all his "drive" and "commitment" to his career to even do that effectively.

I do feel for a lot of young people these days, for whom life can be very difficult. But such blantant piss taking really wears away that feeling.

How is your DH doing, bittorn? How's he feeling about it all?

notanurse2017 · 28/06/2017 12:21

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BarbaraofSeville · 28/06/2017 12:21

Well he's in walking distance of a town centre and lots of sports clubs around. Hardly sounds like the arse end of nowhere really.

I was in Manchester yesterday and noticed a huge amount of development going on. No reason at all to assume that most of the UK isn't similar and even more so in the south.

If it's ridiculous to assume that he's in commuting distance of a city, it's equally ridiculous to assume he's in some mythical pocket with no development or other opportunties around either.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 28/06/2017 12:22

If you cave now the only thing you're teaching is if he bangs on enough it's just a matter of time before he gets his way

I couldn't have put it better myself. The "absolutely hate asking" is also an outright lie, given the number of times he's done it - except now he's just getting better / more inventive in how he asks

And isn't "investing in him" exactly what DH has suggested in offering his time and support, only to be rejected again and again? Since there's absolutely no way he'd ever see money as a "strictly once only" thing, why not face the fact that this isn't going to stop until you find a way of saying no and meaning it?

He'll throw his teddy out of the pram and refuse to see DH again of course, but then he doesn't see him anyway so what will he lose?

smurfit · 28/06/2017 12:23

If his Mum is shit, is it possible he just doesn't know any better and is genuinely albeit awkwardly asking for help? It seems pretty unlikely he would have had any good role models in this sense.

But if his Mum is keeping him away still then I don't think there is anything you can do to help him.

Maybe reiterate the offer to teach him to drive and while doing so, a discussion on the financial issues could happen.

MadisonAvenue · 28/06/2017 12:23

You and your husband sound like really lovely people, but I think the time has come to get tough and ignore the begging letters.

If he needs money then there are jobs to be had. My 20 year old son is at university, since the last year of Sixth form he's worked at McDonalds on a zero hours contract. This suits him perfectly as he can state which hours he can work to fit around his lectures, and in fact just works Fridays and Saturdays during term time (he flatshares in student accommodation near in termtime but it's quite local so he comes home overnight on Fridays) and now he's home for the holidays he's upped his hours to full time.

He hasn't asked for a penny from us and is even going on two holidays this Summer. Last year he saved enough to go to New York for a week during the Summer.

Flashinthepan · 28/06/2017 12:24

It's taken a friend of mine almost 8 years to break into this field, and he has a post-grad degree in a related subject as well as masses of work experience. He's now doing very well, but it was a long slog. Aside from all the other things, I wouldn't give him any money as he seems to be completely unrealistic about what £500 is going to help him achieve. What is it he wants to do with the £500? He doesn't actually say. There's no real point helping him up the funds in his account as he doesn't have a job and doesn't seem to expect to get one anytime soon.

Kickhiminthenuts · 28/06/2017 12:25

I've worked in a few leisure centres and with club based sport. You don't need a license.
It might be you need a lift from another coach, you might need to get yourself to x to be picked up but you generally don't need a license.
Certainly not for day to day coaching or leisure centre work.

I think it's the mum too that's why he won't meet.

Morphene · 28/06/2017 12:25

Absolutely no payment without meeting up face to face to discuss it.

People DO NOT invest in anything without meeting the people behind it.

It may well be he is worth it, but that more money is required. It might be he is a total tool...or the Ex-W in disguise.

If he wants to be invested in then he needs to show up and sell the idea.

Motherbear26 · 28/06/2017 12:27

I've just RTFT with growing disbelief! I can comply understand that DH may feel guilty and want to help, but you have offered help with sorting finances/debts on numerous occasions. Your DH 'invested' fully in this boy when providing for his education, money which seems wasted now that he is unable to get a proper job or properly manage his finances. Please remember that all the help you have offered to get this boy back on his feet has been turned down or ignored. The only help this kid is interested in is handouts. For the boys' own good you need to refuse and explain to him that financial support will not be forthcoming until he allows you to meet up and help him sort out the bigger issue of the debt. None of this is your fault and it isn't up to you to bail him out, especially when he is unwilling to let you help him in more practical ways. Remind him of these previous offers and explain that if he had allowed you to get involved then he may not be in this situation now. Extend the offer of practical help again but please don't give money. If you do this will never end.

N.B. I agree with PP that this could all be the mother, you have no evidence that it isn't. You need to find out for sure.

Bittornhelp · 28/06/2017 12:27

Can anyone please help with a suggested response? I'm struggling with this one...

OP posts:
Motherbear26 · 28/06/2017 12:29

*completely

TheDogAteMyGoatskinVellum · 28/06/2017 12:31

So did you, on your one day trip to Manchester, ascertain what the labouring market is like here Barbara? Or are you just presuming you know what's going on in a city you don't live in and spent a few hours in? And really, Manchester is hardly the most economically deprived area of the UK. We're not doing too badly compared to lots of areas (some of them, shock horror, in the south). Do you think that everywhere in the UK that's not in the south east is like Manchester?

If it's ridiculous to assume that he's in commuting distance of a city, it's equally ridiculous to assume he's in some mythical pocket with no development or other opportunities around either.

But nobody is doing the latter. Literally nobody. The only assumptions are those made by people who said he could definitely find work. My point was that we should not assume either way, and that as there are some circumstances where it would be problematic for a person with this level of qualifications and experience to find unskilled work, without more information about geographic area it's perfectly plausible that ex-DSS might live in one.

We now have confirmation that this probably isn't the case, as he's in the south east, but that doesn't mean you were right to make the assumption.

user1492692527 · 28/06/2017 12:33

Broken record response I would say "lets meet and I can help with budgeting, etc' No offer of money!

EssentialHummus · 28/06/2017 12:33

My two cents...

Hi x,

I'm really sorry to hear that you're still struggling with [list of things from message]. As I've said to you before, I will always be available to help you with learning how to manage your money and getting ahead in your job search, but I won't be sending you £500. If you'd like to meet up to make a plan for how you can improve things, I'd be happy to, and can meet you near [town] or send you a ticket to [our town].