To be told if a boy is sleeping with the girls at girl guides camp

[Babieseverywhere]

The guides have changed their guidance on boys attending meeting, trips and over night stays.

Previously the rule was no boys allowed.

Now all boys allowed but don't tell the girls or parents, unless the boy and his parents give permission !

There are already a massive amount of forms for attending rainbows, brownies, guides or Senior section which need signing, from permissions for photos to health and safety for activities but if a boy want to watch my 10yo undress that is ok and no one will be asking permission from my daughter or us !

How can this be legal ? Do girls have no rights in the UK in 2017 ?

Guides article online

However, in practise, I think everyone in a pack would know if a transchild or a transwoman leader joined so the prerequisite for secrecy is redundant. I also think it would be quite an uncomfortable place for a transchild or transwoman because Guiding has always challenged gender stereotypes. They definitely don't subscribe to the 'I like pink so I must be a girl' theory which seems prevalent in trans discussions.

My fear is that this would not keep them OUT of Guiding, but rather motivate them (or in case of children, their parents) to CHANGE the whole thing to suit their gender identity.

And especially with adults, I would be worried that they aren't even there to have their "identity" confirmed so much as to get access to young girls. After all, nowadays, not only is surgery not required for males to get into women's spaces, they won't even be expected to wear make-up and dresses. A bearded man in a suit can say he's a woman and have access.

Why don't girls need privacy from a male bodied child, based on how that male bodied child feels?

OP, it's attitudes like this that the trans community have to battle against all their lives

What about what women and girls go through and what we haev to battle all our fucking lives, which includes having precious few places we can call our own?

Rockin it's not about boys being potential rapists. (Read the OP - she's talking about a 10 year old ffs).

titchy! You've taken my reply too literally, I was being a facetious, as imho, trans or otherwise, the OPs question is pretty absurd

Satansbanana do you care at all what effect prioritising the needs of someone with a male body will have on the girls? It makes me feel very sad that they don't seem to matter at all.

Like a PP said I'm confident a gay man wouldn't assault me but I wouldn't wanna share a changing room with him

Why not? Genuine question. They have different genitalia to me, but I know that and they know that so my body will not be a surprise they will feel the need to look at, just as theirs won't be a surprise to me. the more I think about it, the more I feel that for me wanting to be in a "female only" changing room is about not wanting to be ogled or feeling that people in the room might be interested in looking at my body. I get changed happily with women because I assume they are not interested. So in theory a gay man would be OK cos he wouldn't be interested either.

To be honest today's youth is such a mish mash of gender and sexuality - far far more than I recall from when I was a teen. I wonder whether we are maybe heading towards a society where it is seen as normal for these things to be considered much more fluid....

Here is your bearded man in a suit Vestal and he states he is absolutely a women.

ielepetute well said

NCd for this as I am a GG leader (Brownies).
GGUK is a female only space, and with the blurring of gender identity vs sex being such a hot topic the powers that be made a decision and we abide by it. TBH I think that I am unlikely to have a transgirl applying to my Brownies. I am disappointed that we had to lose our gender non-binary young leader though, who did not feel that they could identify as female just to keep their GG leadership position. The policy works both ways, and just means that GGUK has decided that Gender is more important than sex.

My ds has been doing scout activities since beavers. Camp etc. When it comes to camping whether in tents, bivvies or buildings there is no floating around in the nude. There's no communal toilet visiting. Rarely there are showers. Rarely these are used even if present! The kid's run around being kids again, get mucky, come home in the same pants and socks they went in. Little teeth cleaning. "getting ready for bed" entails little more than pulling their boots off and scrambling into a bag. Whether someone has a pen is or not is very very low in the list of their concerns

I don't think it's right to insist that any trans child is held responsible for sexual assaults by some men.

Who is doing that, JaxingJump? Since the available evidence is that transwomen commit the same level of violent crime as men (and nobody is saying either all transwomen commit violent crime, or all men commit violent crime, just that a proportion of them do), it's reasonable to assume that some transgirls are a risk to girls in the same way that some boys are a risk to girls, and take appropriate precautions.

penis

The irony is, if your daughters knew of a trans girl in their class they would probably show more understanding and compassion than some of the adults on this thread.

A bearded man in a suit can say he's a woman and have access.

True, ^VestalVirgin*, and they do.

Since the available evidence is that transwomen commit the same level of violent crime as men

Please kindly link to the research study, Annie :)

Santan I lack neither compassion nor understanding but you have made that assumption because I don't think males should be in females private spaces. I do not think that is an unreasonable opinion to hold and I really don't see how holding that opinion means I lack compassion and understanding. Can you explain your statement please?

'To be honest today's youth is such a mish mash of gender and sexuality - far far more than I recall from when I was a teen. I wonder whether we are maybe heading towards a society where it is seen as normal for these things to be considered much more fluid....'

And yet somehow sexism isn't evaporating. Sexual harassment in schools is at crisis levels (my dd was sexted on a school ipad in her second week at secondary ffs). Sexual assault isn't disappearing.

I think there is a very serious risk that all this stuff will still be there in this brave new world of gender fluidity but it will be impossible to measure, impossible to organise against, impossible to escape from.

@lulu1083 @rightsofwomen - I posted my first reply without reading the article (stupid of me) and thus without realising it was a post about trans issues. Hence my second reply.

Satansbanana I agree entirely, although I'd describe it as compliance, which is what girls have been taught since time immemorial: that their needs don't matter, and that male-bodied people must always, always be put first.

user892 I'm pretty sure you have google, same as me.

just means that GGUK has decided that Gender is more important than sex.

Which is kind of sad, as gender is not something you can measure.

FGS. It is getting so far out of hand that it's ridiculous.

thecountess I do agree with your post. I know children are stereotyped from before birth...but nurseries and schools could be doing an absolute fuck load more to de-gender their environment.

If a boy is making girls uncomfortable when changing or toileting then that boy needs to be excluded and taught the error of his ways. The answer surely isn't to hide all female bodies from all males? That causes major problems further down the line.

Shouldn't it be like every other sort of bullying? You challenge the bully rather than segregating out the bullied?

Your title is very different to the content of the thread.

You are being odd.

My dd goes to scouts (no guide groups here) along with her brother and they all go to camps together. They are separate to sleep and change but mix with everything else.

Your dd is ten and the leaders will be there. You are massively overthinking