To be told if a boy is sleeping with the girls at girl guides camp

[Babieseverywhere]

The guides have changed their guidance on boys attending meeting, trips and over night stays.

Previously the rule was no boys allowed.

Now all boys allowed but don't tell the girls or parents, unless the boy and his parents give permission !

There are already a massive amount of forms for attending rainbows, brownies, guides or Senior section which need signing, from permissions for photos to health and safety for activities but if a boy want to watch my 10yo undress that is ok and no one will be asking permission from my daughter or us !

How can this be legal ? Do girls have no rights in the UK in 2017 ?

Guides article online

Annie - did you link to the research you mentioned?

I can see a Swedish study from 2011 which looked at a very small sample size of transexuals and found a violent crime rate of 0.36% as opposed to 0.14% of their matched cis controls. The difference was only statistically significant in the group who underwent sex reassignment before 1989.

Fish I didn't say the parents are the abusers. I said it is child abuse.

"basic biology being disregarded in favour of a lie?"

Because its way more complicated than that. All humans start out as female but hormones in the womb make changes that affect sex but the balance and amount of those hormones means this is not a black or white result but many shades of grey.

Look up the enzyme 5-α-reductase and its affect on Guevedoce children.

So we value girls but only the right kind of girls. The persecution inflicted on women is the very reason we should be supporting other minority groups. Trans obtaining rights does not detract from women's rights, are we so unwilling to share our struggles, to lend the language of "women" to those who struggle to construct their own language. It's shocking how little compassion is displayed. I support trans rights precisely because of the shared history of persecution

I think the provision of female only spaces with the direct intention of reducing the gender segregation later in life is a double think I just can;t cope with.

Men and women have problems integrating later in life, and over coming gender stereotyping...and the solution is to segregate all males and females for more of their childhood?

I really really struggle to believe this is the answer.

I think actually ignoring gender during childhood is the answer.

No more separate toilet blocks in primary school, no more girls uniforms that are different to the boys uniform. Same rules for length of girls hair and earrings as boys. Same rules on the acceptability of violence. (ie no more boys will be boys from teachers ffs).

No more telling your kids they should be more embarrassed undressing in front of children of one gender than the other.....

If you want adult society to be less gendered then surely you need to stop putting in artificial (victorian inspired) gender barriers in childhood?

sorry last comment was to archery

Considering 80% of trans kids if not encouraged/allowed to transition end up being happy gay or lesbian adults it astounds me that people can't see transing children for what it is. Deeply homophobic eugenics. A gay male child is not a girl and vice versa.

Clarys, no I don't actually want to single out the girl in this situation. The problem is that someone will have to be separated from the others for the sake of privacy and dignity, it may have to be the girl in this scenario. It seems that currently it is unacceptable to expect transgender individuals to be separated, and I think that current discrimination law backs this up too. What's the possible alternative at the moment? That the girl in this case doesn't ever go on any residential trips?

Still Spartacus.

And please please please will someone answer the question 'what it feels like to be a woman?'

I think the alternative should be spaces for people of the female sex.

No more telling your kids they should be more embarrassed undressing in front of children of one gender than the other.....

Embarrassment is not the issue. When we had to change together at school (it happened sometimes) the issue was about boys' behaviour. Also, it wasn't girls trying to undress boys or see their knickers / genitals. It wasn't girls trying to see though the upper windows of the boys toilets, or ambushing boys on their way out. It wasn't girls giggling about whether boys' balls had dropped or whether an erection was showing through their shorts. ...

Scottish it really isn't that complicated. There are 2 sexes that's it just 2. Yes a small % are affected by conditions which result in them being born both sexes or no sex but even then it is only the 2 male and female that are present not any extra ones thrown in.

'Cis' girls or women only zones.

Morphene I agree with much of what you are suggesting. But with pinkification and the segregation and stereotyping of toys, the sexism of preschool TV, etc, things have gone in the opposite direction, so you can't jump in at the age of 10 and say to kids who have already been massively socialised that NOW they have to pretend it isn't there. Ime the female spaces are precisely the places where sexism deprogramming works best which is why I am so strongly opposed to their destruction in the name of equality.

A woman 'invading' a man's space is not the equivalent of a man invading a woman's space. Woman's spaces are places of safety. Men's spaces are places of power.

Morphene do you seriously believe that transactivists no platforming, silencing, getting fired from their jobs, anyone who does not toe the line of 'your body is wrong - change it' has nothing to do with the number of children who 'in my day' were allowed to peacefully grow up and grow out and in very many cases be happy gay and lesbian adults, now being transed? Do you think the immovable 'if you don't trans your kid you are a monster and your child will commit suicide' attitude that parents are faced with is unrelated to the explosion in the numbers of trans kids?

Exit, it's what feeling not like a man feels like. Exactly how you feel so that shouldn't be such a huge stretch to understand.

I haven't got a scooby what 'feeling like a woman' feels like.

I was a scout from 7 to 15 and we shared tents with boys. It was never a problem and taught us a lot about respect and boundaries and friendship with people of tge opposite gender.

Nothing weird ever happened in the tents.

I wish I could raise my child in the 80s

Jaxingjump, I love you. Absolutely right. I've no idea what feeling like a man is and have no desire to be one. That's what feeling like you're in the right body is

Jax I wouldn't know what a man feels like I was not born or brought up as one so is it that which makes be a women or the fact I was born female and have lived as a female my whole life?

Out of interest what would the reaction be if this sutuation were reversed? A trans boy wanting to join an all male cub or scout group.

But I don't think this has much to do with trans girls. They are doing this much earlier in their lives and much more quietly. The only fanfares I see with them are when they get denied access to opportunities on the basis of nothing but their genitals. And I would fight that if it happened to me too!

I'm afraid I see the opposite - kids who have suddenly transformed from perfectly ordinary teenage boys into transgirls, and who then demand to be the absolute centre of attention, whatever the cost to anyone else. There's a quote (can't remember from who, sorry) that goes something like "to people with privilege, equality seems like oppression" and I think this applies in many of these cases. These kids have walked through life as boys, are suddenly being told "no" to something when they identify as girls, and they cannot cope, and think themselves the most oppressed ever.

Raccoon, I think that if you think about it in the way you do you will never have any understanding or empathy for someone who is trans. I can't help you figure it out I'm afraid.

Yes can someone pleeeeeaasseee tell me what feeling like a woman is. And also what definitions of man and woman you are using to place myself and a transwoman in the same category. I don't understand and I got an A for A level biology so I was under the misapprehension that I understood sex!!!!!! Perhaps someone could enlighten me?

I would feel the same. It is the children's right to privacy from the opposite sex not trans girl/trans boy.