To be told if a boy is sleeping with the girls at girl guides camp

[Babieseverywhere]

The guides have changed their guidance on boys attending meeting, trips and over night stays.

Previously the rule was no boys allowed.

Now all boys allowed but don't tell the girls or parents, unless the boy and his parents give permission !

There are already a massive amount of forms for attending rainbows, brownies, guides or Senior section which need signing, from permissions for photos to health and safety for activities but if a boy want to watch my 10yo undress that is ok and no one will be asking permission from my daughter or us !

How can this be legal ? Do girls have no rights in the UK in 2017 ?

Guides article online

[[https://inpermanentopposition.com/2017/01/12/dear-trans-women-final-part/ I am not a feeling. I am not akin to religious conviction or patriotism, something that you feel in your soul or your heart. I am not an idea. I am not a lifestyle choice. I am not a personality type.
You are asking me to curtail my rights, to endanger my body and my equality. You are asking me to shut up about my personal experiences when they contradict yours. You are asking me to erase my bodily reality, all because of a belief you hold about yourself.
Your belief about yourself is unprovable. I must take you at your word. I must listen to your personal narrative while you ignore mine. I must pretend my boundaries are meaningless to make you comfortable. I must “center” you in conversations that don’t even pertain to you. I must censor myself, diminish myself, make myself smaller so that you can exist comfortably in the box marked “woman”. Asking me to do that makes you little different from any other male person]]

Wow, just read the whole thing. What a powerful, brilliant piece. Thank you midcentury.

Loopsdefruits thanks for sharing further. I am actually really surprised guides has male leaders. I thought the whole things was about it being for girls but also led by girls and women.

Itsme I think that Loopsdefruits gave you the official answer for why Guides is a girl only group but the countess gave you the 'reason' for that answer!

My dd has been in Guides since rainbows. She has loved it but sometimes got bored, usually when it is time to move up. I encourage her to stay because I feel some all girl group time is good.

itsme if Guides were mixed sex I really don't think I wouldn't have bothered to encourage her to stay in quite so much.

if Guides were mixed sex I really don't think I wouldn't have bothered to encourage her to stay in quite so much.

I agree. Pity it is in fact now a mixed sex group.

Countess - Westminster is co-ed and St Paul's is girls-only. You're absolutely right about Harrow, Winchester and Eton though :)

Italian get your DD to check out the new program stuff, see if that gets her excited :) Male members are 'rare' but yeh, they're an important part of Guiding. They can't 'lead' but they can help out as part of the team. As can male parents/grandparents/guardians.

Notwhatiexpected, "I genuinely want want people to read my posts, and engage with me. Explain to me why they believe my experience to be invalid."

I definitely do not think your experience is invalid. I think it is important for people to know how wide the trans movement spans and who it includes. Plus I am so sorry you had to have counselling that was so shit, "I have seen the councillors minimise his abuse of me because if his gender feels, I have seen all the "you go girl, she's just jealous of how sexy you are" chat from other men online." It is now advice not to have counselling with an abusive partner, and I think all councellors should be trained in what abuse looks like if they cannot spot it themselves. How shit.

DSDs school recently decided that a male can use the female changing rooms and such as they 'identify' as a girl. Problem being, this male has form for sexual harassment towards females. DSD was effectively bullied for speaking up about this when it all started. I feel at times some are so desperate to appear tolerant that all reason goes out of the window. The school are now in quite a pickle. The child is currently expelled but come Monday..they have a big decision to make. As it stands, a bunch of females are using staff loos and such to avoid this child. I expect many on this thread would say this was transphobic. Because transphobia is shouted before people even think a bit more deeply about just what is being supported here.

I can understand the view that sex segregated areas are not needed. I disagree with it, but I can understand it. What I cannot understand is the insistence that we DO need sex segregation but that if someone 'has a feeling in their head'...sex goes right out of the window.

"As an aside, our local Cub group faded away because so many of the girls who joined only wanted to do craft, or sit around carrying on the conversation they left off in the playground a couple of hours earlier, wouldn't go outside into the adjoining woodland or field to build BBQs or fires, play rounders, wouldn't go kayaking or orienteering. There were issues about mud-on-uniforms/trainers etc by parents (really!); God knows why they joined, tbh (though someone said it was because the local Brownies were doing too much camping, fire-making etc for their liking...), but one by one, the boys left til the group became unsustainable."

Never was in any of these organisations - guides sounds pants tbh - I'd definitely have preferred Scouts - but wouldn't have been allowed back then i guess.

And if folk keep strongly insisting that tw and tgirls are women and girls - why are you so shocked and disgusted that somefolk say they aren't because they don't believe people can change sex or being a woman or girl is just a feeling or idea? When you really think about it - which belief seems more routed in reality and downright sense.

If a trans girl is thought of by people who they interact with as a girl, do people think they will be socialised as a male - or socialised as a girl?

Do people think that child will have the idea of male privilege or do people think that child will absorb society's messages of what society expects of a girl?

itsme maybe girls just want to be able to speak and not be spoken over.

jezebel.com/5944642/women-speak-75-less-when-theyre-surrounded-by-dudes-and-thats-bad

Thanks midcentury - I had that article bookmarked from elsewhere but my connection went down and I forgot to read it. It's excellent

Do people think that child will have the idea of male privilege or do people think that child will absorb society's messages of what society expects of a girl?

Yes. That child will have grown up WITH male privilege. Male privilege exists as soon as children are aware there are boys and girls, and that in general pink and dolls = girl while blue and truck = boy. As soon as little Amy plays with the truck and little Billy says 'you can't play with that you're a girl.'

That child will have grown up WITH male privilege

As soon as little Amy plays with the truck and little Billy says 'you can't play with that you're a girl

And then they hear those messages said to them when people think they are a girl?

So what message do they absorb then about themselves?

I'd rather address boys behaviour and make sure they aren't dominating in a mixed environment.

Well yes, that would be nice. And hopefully with enough gender critical parents and schools it might happen. But as the trans ideology actively reinforces gender roles and many women fall over themselves to agree, I'm not holding my breath.

WankingMonkey I know our school have to be seen to be inclusive now and have to provide examples of being inclusive.

The fact that girls are being thrown under the bus while the school completes a tick list to make them look good is completely out of order

itsmine "All kids clubs should allow boys and girls."

Why? What is gained by all clubs having both sexes in them? There are other groups like Woodcraft folk which take girls and boys, why not go to that group if you want a mixed group. I chose a girls only group. My dd goes to a mixed school so she sees boys all day and every day and has since age 4. Why can she not have an all girl group once a week for a little over an hour and a camp once a year?

Wankingmonkey "As it stands, a bunch of females are using staff loos and such to avoid this child." I wonder if the police should be involved sexual harassment being an offence and all. The school are so keen to appear cool they are forgetting that several girls are now effectively shoved out of their changing facility because one male wants to use it.

I suspect they thoughtlessly decided to be 'right on' and all about 'equality' and 'accessibility', when in fact, once again, Those In Charge have made the trans thing a women's problem.

Sadly I don't think anything will help at this stage. The head is well aware that this child has in the past groped females and flashed his penis at groups of females also. They are also aware that this 'trans' thing is very recent, so surely must suspect there is a perv aspect in this case. But still...fuck the females.

Why would females want some female only spaces?

I stumbled on the politics board on another forum i use. Had a look around and just wanted to run as far as i could. Mostly men - the mysoginy and disdain for women (especially feminists) from some male posters was quite shocking if not downright disturbing. Very few women try and stand their ground there - or stay. The world can be really shit for women and girls.

They are also aware that this 'trans' thing is very recent, so surely must suspect there is a perv aspect in this case

Emphasizing this part..so as not to be accused of saying all trans people are pervs.

I wonder if the police should be involved sexual harassment being an offence and all. The school are so keen to appear cool they are forgetting that several girls are now effectively shoved out of their changing facility because one male wants to use it.

Police were involved with the original complaints, quite sure nothing came of it though.

I don't think the school expected this to be so big, given at first it was only DSD and a couple of thicker skinned girls who were using the staff facilities, as at first, everyone who objected was shouted down as a transphobe by those wishing to appear progressive. Over time though, turns out more and more girls are uncomfortable who were clearly just pretending to be ok with it. Who would have thought eh...

Draylon - apologies (and to the Countess!), I only know girls who have been to St Paul's - I don't know any boys who went there so wasn't aware there was a boys' school too. Westminster is definitely mixed though and has been for years - I have two female friends who were educated there and we're in our early 50s.