To think this is inappropriate at 12

[wonderingagain21]

I discovered my DD12 awake at 1am this morning on her phone (which I thought was downstairs). She has clearly worked out my restrictions passcode and was watching a film. I then started looking at her internet history and found that over the xmas hold she had done huge numbers of searches related to sex. Now I know she may want to understand certain terms, seems a reasonable use of the Internet but I'm talking more than 50 searches of the same things I clearly exploring more deeply. I'm a bit horrified as she seems too young for this much detail - tantric sex, numerous positions, porn etc . I had thought we were responsible parents but now I'm worried that if I put too many restrictions in place she'll find other ways to explore this stuff.

Taking the phone away at night won't stop her searching for sexual things.
Putting safe search or other restrictions on won't stop her either.
It's not wrong to do either of those things, but recognise that it's not a solution.
You can't stop kids being curious and looking, what you can do is talk to them about what they might come across and how to deal with it. Talk about the difference between reality and what you see on the internet. Keep lines of communication open.

Can anyone recommend a book/some literature to help me teach/inform my ds about the emotional aspects of sex and relationships? He's well informed about the mechanics but I want him to be a bit more tuned in to the concept of respect and the reality of sex and the varying shapes and sizes of the bodies of girls he may have sex with in the next few years. Any recommendations gratefully received.

I think parents need to be aware of phone use in general tbh, it starts at y6 so you need to be in their with open communication if you are going to help your children.
It isn't even the internet that's to blame ironically.
My dd had a nude photo sent to her when she was just staring secondary from a boy she'd known since nursery.
It was a text and thankfully it was all sorted out in a short space of time as we knew the parents quite well.
They were mortified and in a way it's helped dd as she says when friends are talking now she just says "When you've seen one you've seen them all" I try not to laugh, but know she isn't going to get involved with anything much.

I think it's really terrible for a child to be able to access porn on the internet. It would be one thing if you could ensure it was restricted to seeing plain nudity and sex but it could easily be extremely disturbing and disgusting things that they could be seeing. Comparing online porn to porn mags magazines is ridiculous. At least with porn mags you won't accidentally see violence, child abuse and god knows what else.

If you aren't capable of ensuring that your child can't access disturbing material online then they shouldn't be allowed access. There are plenty of books available with explicit but appropriate material for teens.

OP, I'm confused how your DD could work out your restrictions code. You should also consider getting some decent parental controls put on your home network.

Agree gilly, I have a friend who works in this area for the police and says that perfectly lovely children of both genders are sending all sorts pictures and videos of themselves, but that it goes on very late at night.

DD1 who is now 22 talked to her younger sisters about this, her rule: " If you wouldn't take your top off for them in person and trust them not to tell their friends, don't do it online."

Putting safe search or other restrictions on won't stop her either

It is possible to restrict what your child accesses on the internet. Admittedly Google 'safe search' isn't much use.

Darth

Yes, sometimes it's quite naive and childish not particularly sexy but they know it's naughty. In this case he was asking her to show hers if he showed his and sent the picture.
He was bloody stupid but hadn't a clue what he'd done, had no concept of the law and how much trouble he could be in, especially if he sent the pic to someone else etc.
We need to educate our children during y6, this really does seem the time to do it.

Show you mine, show me yours, which I'm sure if we're honest we all played at some stage, for digital native children sadly gets them in trouble.

At an older age its more serious though, and far more common than you think.

Darth

Yes, it could have been very scary and had we not known the family well we would have had to have gone through the professionals, but we were happy with the outcome from the parents and the boy.
It wasn't sick or malicious, just stupid and naive.
Weird to think kids can get prosecuted for this if they share any photo's.
They are so used to click and send, it really is scary and they need to know, very early.
My dd said the lessons came at school during y7, it was too late for her, she'd already experienced it.

DD1 who is now 22 talked to her younger sisters about this, her rule: " If you wouldn't take your top off for them in person and trust them not to tell their friends, don't do it online."
I think a better rule (assuming sisters are younger than 18) is 'don't do it, it's illegal'

I agree, but don't do it its illegal doesn't always stop teens from drinking, or smoking, or having underage sex. Also that message was made clear to them too, by us and at school. I just thought it was a quite good one too.

Darth

I think that knowing they can get prosecuted and gain a Police record does the trick, with most of them. Of course they will do things and try to get away with being less than angelic, but they will understand the law and stop the illegal activities.
Like in dd case with the boy, he had no idea and as I say we would have involved the Police had it not been the naive childish action of the boy.
I think it's up to parents to tell their kids of the pitfalls and let them know they are on their side, not trying to stop them, but keep them safe from the escalation that can happen from a few seemingly innocent searches.

Wow, I just checked back & saw all the responses. Thanks (almost) everyone. I have realised that my restrictions code was too easy, but with wifi restrictions, phone restrictions & removing the phone at night I thought I had been doing all the right things, & to be fair, I know that restricting information isn't really a solution anyway. DD & I have had a bit of a chat about late night phone use (again) - she hadn't been watching anything inappropriate last night, just awake & wanted to watch a film. We have historically had quite an open relationship & have always been happy to chat about drugs sexuality suicide self harm etc etc. so I was a bit surprised by her searches. I'm glad so many of you have reassured me that her curiousity is fairly age appropriate - and largely triggered by being secondary school. In fact she said as much to me tonight. Thank you all & goodnight.

DarthPlagueis

I'm not sure I like it, as to me it gives the impression that it's okay for a minor to send explicit pictures in some circumstances. I'd take a far harder line on this than I would with drinking alcohol.

And its a little different from smoking and drinking, as its not the minor who is breaking the law in those examples. Underage sex is a bit more nuanced.

Sorry, don't mean to have a go, I just don't see the wisdom in your DD's words myself. I'm also childless so it's a bit easier for me in these dilemas!

I don't think it tells them that its alright in certain circumstances, especially as all of the other elements have also been discussed. I think it was just a good rule, especially as lots of the time teens are far bolder when in the saftey of their parents home than they would be in person. I thought it greatly reinforced that its a bad idea.

As an aside, we thought we were v on the ball, spot checking dds iPhone etc etc... Found out v recently that she's been groomed by a paedophile, thank god we found out. Police involved. Dd is 11 :(

How awful. Poor you, Hope it gets resolved and dealt with.

That sounds v scary thank goodness you found out. Hope your DD is ok.

Darth - to me, the rule could be read as 'it's okay as long as you really trust the person you are sending it to'.

Thank you :) still v raw, was going to start a thread but don't feel up to it yet. Dd was much better with PCs than we thought she was! Had lots of rules/things in place and she broke every rule and found her way round all the restrictions on place. Has felt like a bereavement... Am on tablets from Dr... Just never think it will happen to you. The accounts we were spot checking were her real ones but she had fake ones set up to talk to strangers she met gaming. We are v open and had a million times over conversations around dangers and the Internet and never talking to people she didn't know etc etc..... Didn't seem to sink in :(

Oh well, they've been told about the legality thing, and the respect for yourself thing. Although if you knew the pressure of teens to send "nudes" from lots of others you might think it more appropriate. They don't just send them to people they know IRL!

both genders are sending all sorts pictures and videos of themselves, but that it goes on very late at night.

What I don't understand is why are there so many children of seemingly educated and intelligent parents with their own internet enabled devices?

How are these children in a position to be able to search pornography (which most of them do, a lot), send nude photos, stay up all night on social media etc?

We know the internet is dangerous, we know the filters etc aren't full-proof, and yet vast amounts of children are able to spend hours every day and night with unsupervised access to the internet.

With my own IP parental control filters on, I can google 'big penis' and with Google images I don't have to scroll far before I can see fisting, gang-bangs and what looks (from a fleeting glance) like an underage girl. Most of this stuff makes me feel sick. Children viewing this level of extreme sexual content (and I use this term losely, because as far as the internet is concerned, this stuff is not extreme!) are having their own moral, emotional and social compasses seriously skewed.

The apparent widespread apathy to these issues utterly baffles me.

hateloggingin I wrote my last post before reading yours. I don't want you to think it was in response to what you wrote.

There are horrific people and horrific things online. Filters don't work, checking history doesn't work, talking to our kids doesn't work. Unless we (society as a whole) realise that everything we think we know about our children and the internet is just the tip of the iceberg we're not going to be able to keep them safe.

Yeah maybe it's an agree to disagree Darth - in my head the amount of pressure, combined with the illegality, underscores the need for a 'no tolerance' approach and that's why I didn't like the rule as I read it.

But obviously it's a lot easier for us hypothetical parents and I've said my bit, so I'll shush now!

Sympathies to Hateloggingin . Just goes to show how difficult it is to get kids to fully understand the dangers out there and how computer-literate parents need to be to be able to control what your children get up to online. I dont envy you all!