Am I in the wrong over this facebook post?

[user1475002412]

Dd goes to Brownies. I purchased a ticket for her to go to local panto with the Brownies in June 2016. Paid in cash. Asked Brownie leader for receipt, she said they didn't do receipts.

Three days before panto, the Brownie leader posted on the facebook page the arrangements for panto and listed the names of all brownies going. Dd wasnt on list.

I posted asking why my dd not on list. Brownie leader said there was no ticket for her as i hadnt paid. I replied saying i had paid in cashand that dd would be upset if there was no ticket. I admit i was annoyed and then posted that i would like a refund if she hadnt ordered my ticket.

First brownies session today and leader has given out a letter saying she wont tolerate unkindness as she is a volunteer. Pretty sure this comment is aimed at me....

I don't think your response sounded unkind. I'd be mightily pissed off in your position.
At my DD's brownies there is a list that is ticked off in front of you when you have paid. Less hassle than receipts, and ensures no mistakes.

Parents are on a helper rota here too.

I think your tone was a bit off and I'd hate any of my (many) mistakes to have been highlighted like this. Toastie has made a good point, a public announcement of this error has understandably made her defensive.

My dd's Brownie and Guide leader are very organised and on top of every thing. Maybe she is not that organised my leaders have record books of payments for subs and trips. Get her back up and ask for a receipt every time you give her money. She doesn't trust worthy.

I think the leader embarrassed herself with that letter. They would know its you but you weren't unreasonable and you didn't have her number. What could you do. If I was you I would ask for a receipt if she is that forgetful. To be a volunteer you have to have 1 important quality and that is care for the people you look after. What if her child was upset I know my children would have been. She is looking after kids not adults.

A few posters have suggested that s helpful gesture would be to buy the leader a receipt book. No. That really would be passive aggressive. A helpful gesture would bd to volunteer to be unit treasurer. The admin load on leaders is huge (it drove me to resign in the end) and it's soul-destroying to have to do it all single-handed.

I really would follow up on getting the refund.

I agree with the pp, you need to chase up that refund. I know you said you had other things going on but if I had paid for something and was told I hadn't I'd raise merry hell! Tbh this all seems a bit backward, the person in the right is usually the most vocal

Brownie leader is accusing you of being unkind however her actions of accepting your ticket money then leaving your daughter out of the panto trip was much more unkind. She needs to get herself organised and provide receipts so this doesn't happen again.

It might be passive-aggressive to buy her a receipts book but that's exactly what I'd be doing, only without any of the 'passive'.

She's either pocketed the money, messed up on which child should be going or is just incompetent. None of which is acceptable when dealing with money.

Her response to your reasonable comment was PA. I'd go in with 'here this is for you, as you don't seem organised.' And then find another pastime for my DDs but then I do love a good RL flounce

Beaver scout leader here also. How are they doing the accounts if she's not providing receipts. The whole of our troop provide receipts. I corralate everything with the reciepts and the end of year accounts are gone through by two separate accountants to check us. (The leader is took over from had "lost" £300 the year previously when they checked her accounts.. She wasNt worried about not being able to explain the missing money at all! I'm extra paranoid about it)
I think the brownie leader is in the wrong and should have kept a list as people paid for who was going along with a reciept book.

It concerns me you don't have a contact number for your daughter's Brownie Leader. Admittedly, I wasn't overjoyed the time a parent texted me about that evening's swimming trip while I was away in America (& she'd not even forgotten I was away) but if you run a Brownie Unit (or similar) the parents/guardians of Unit members need to be able to contact you.

Facebook is not an appropriate way to share information about trips etc: not all parents/guardians will be able to have accounts & even if all do, it is not an appropriate medium for distributing that sort of information. Did she communicate it by any other means (e.g. email)?

The appropriate next step is to contact the District (or in some cases Division, depending on your local set-up) Commissioner for your area. You should have received their contact details when your daughter joined the Unit, but as Brown Owl didn't provide you with her own phone number, I'm guessing not? Do you know any other Leaders local to you?

How many Leaders does the Unit have? And how many Brownies? It is hard keeping on top of everything. That doesn't make it ok, but the fact it happened at all & the way she's responded make it sound like she's struggling.

The end of year accounts should be being done/have just been done so your money should have shown up. Obviously no comfort to your DD in terms of having missed the panto, but you should at least be vindicated!

With regards to the photos, it might be to do with the way you filled in the photo consent part of your daughter's registration form - the wording means I quite often have to ask parents whether they want photos used only in the Unit or if they can be used more widely as they've ticked both those boxes...

Try not to be worried about thinking Brown Owl doesn't like you - she might not have recognised you Out Of Context (as it were), she might know some other parents better, she might think you don't like her... Easy for me to say, I know, but try not to give it headspace unless you get something concrete to confirm it! The letter might not be [just] about you either - though "unkindness" is an odd thing to complain about really. I've told parents I won't accept abusive behaviour before, but that's a rather different thing (& thankfully rare)!

Did you return the consent form at the same time? I'll admit to not being the most admin organised leader on the planet, but when I receive consent form and cash I write PC on the form. We ask that all cash is put in a named envelope but of course that doesn't always happen so it's a good cross check for me.

My point being, if she has the consent form or marked off on a sheet as received, it is harder to say she didn't have cash as well.

Definitely take it higher if the leader refuses to discuss it further and refund you.

Offering to help would be greatly appreciated I am sure. I know I loved my parent who took subs in and ticked it off against the girls names. I just then wrote out receipts. It's all that mum did, and it might seem like a small job. But it meant I could get on with the meeting and it speeded up my admin later.

Our scouts/cubs/beavers have never given receipts for anything, it drives me mad!!! I now pay all subs online straight to their account so it can be traced. Although I did pay a £150 trip last year in cash & received no receipt so made sure I "checked" atleast 3 times that it was noted I had paid.
Your Facebook post sounds reasonsonable to me considering you have paid for something & not received it. But clearly the leader is upset that you have shown her up which is why the letter was sent. Next time you are there I would make a point of calling her out on the letter; say you didn't feel your comment was rude or unkind & that you would like your money returned.

did you hand her the money yourself or give it to your daughter to hand over? Are you absolutely sure she received it?

I'm another one who finds it astounding that you send your daughter off to brownies each week but don't have a contact number for the leader.

I once worked with someone who volunteered with the Brownies. She narrowly avoided being dismissed for theft because she repaid the money and resigned with immediate effect at the disciplinary.

I would take it higher.

I don't have a contact number for Brownies only Guides maybe are daughters go to the same unit.

You ate definitely not BU. I'd be furious. Not only has she taken your money either nothing to show for it, but this could have really upset your dd if all her friends were doing and she wasn't. It's just lucky that she wasn't too bothered. Out of interest, how much money was it? Not that it matters?

I don't think you were rude in any way and think it was appropriate for you to ask her over FB especially if they are quite happily posting things on Facebook about trips etc and if I read it right she is the one who said your daughter wasn't on the list because you hadn't paid for a ticket (even though you had). She could have pm'd you in the first place if she didn't want it discussed publicly.

I also think if she had enough time to type and distribute letters about people being rude then she has enough time to make receipts or even a tick sheet as previously suggested by a PP.

You need to take it higher. I always pay by cheque so I have proof but cash needs some form of receipt even an email would do. It could be a genuine mistake but her actions are odd and rude for someone in her position. I've had a similar thing happen and was told the opposite! They first offered to double check and then said not to worry and got my daughter a ticket anyway (I gave them another cheque in the end). She sounds very suspicious even if she isn't.

Zebraowl is spot on.

Guides and scouts (ex scout leader here) are legally required to administrate accounts properly as its a registered charity. It was certainly drummed in on the training courses I went on and every unit I've either worked with or my daughter has attended has issued receipts. It serves to protect the leaders from chancer parents too!

Take this higher.

I think YWBabitU.

Leading something like brownies can feel like a thankless task and the admin can overwhelm a lot of people who are great with the other bits of leading a bunch of girls, but not stellar at organization. A lot of brownie and the like groups hang on by a thread with leaders feeling really put upon but not wanting to let down the children they serve. Any lack of compassion for that by parents of those children probably would feel unkind. I think you were out of order for posting the comment on facebook instead of contacting her face to face and talking about it nicely.

I understand you are under a lot of stress, but you have no idea what other things the leader is handling too. The brownie leader should have taken receipts. She should have had things better organized, but she made a mistake while working to provide a club for your DD and others every week. I bit more understanding on your part was in order.

As an ex-Brown Owl I kind of agree with you, BoomBoomCousin. The admin is a thankless task and often we were doing pointless bureaucratic things simply because someone in HQ had thought it up as a wizard wheeze. But receipts are non-negotiable. It's also a good idea if all incoming cash is in an envelope with the girl's name on it. In my very early days, I had to deal with a parent who was aggrieved because I hadn't remembered that the fiver that had been thrust into my hand at the end of a meeting had come from her. From then on, I wrote the receipts with the parent standing in front of me.

As I said before, what many units would benefit from is a parent volunteer in the role of treasurer, keeping the records up to date.

I'm a brownie leader. The amount of parents who think it is acceptable to give me money for brownie things when they see me at the school gates is ridiculous. Just cash, from their pocket. I then have to go home, get the brownie stuff out and deal with it then. It's a faff.
If I had my way, everyone would bank transfer the money straight to the brownie account. And if for some reason they can't do that, a cheque, in a named envelope. Cash is a right pita.
Speak to her again, in person, apologise if she thinks you have been rude, but be clear that you have paid. Ask how they plan to avoid this situation in future (i.e. Receipts or paying directly into the bank account).
The photo thing, maybe you haven't given consent for your daughter to be on the photos. We've had many parents tick the wrong box and then get annoyed about it, when actually it is there fault for not reading the answers properly. Again, speak to the leaders to see what your form says.

There's no way in hell I'd apologise!

Leader here too! Receipts are a must. She needs to change that for sure! I agree perhaps you haven't signed the photo form?! We were avoiding taking a photo of a few children for ages until we sent out another form and a friend's child ticked yes and when we asked she had no idea why it had been put to not take photos! It's hard being a leader. There's lots of things to remember. But I'd say she's definitely in the wrong here!