Am I in the wrong over this facebook post?

[user1475002412]

Dd goes to Brownies. I purchased a ticket for her to go to local panto with the Brownies in June 2016. Paid in cash. Asked Brownie leader for receipt, she said they didn't do receipts.

Three days before panto, the Brownie leader posted on the facebook page the arrangements for panto and listed the names of all brownies going. Dd wasnt on list.

I posted asking why my dd not on list. Brownie leader said there was no ticket for her as i hadnt paid. I replied saying i had paid in cashand that dd would be upset if there was no ticket. I admit i was annoyed and then posted that i would like a refund if she hadnt ordered my ticket.

First brownies session today and leader has given out a letter saying she wont tolerate unkindness as she is a volunteer. Pretty sure this comment is aimed at me....

[MaudOnceMore]

Yes, same here. We wrote letters home from camp and got very excited if family or friends wrote to us (we went for 10 days). Sounds very Enid Blyton now!

[WankersHacksandThieves]

I remember we would go away for a week camp and they'd have a visiting day half way through :)

[MaudOnceMore]

Yes, a different world indeed! No doubt because virtually everyone has mobile phones now, Girlguiding UK collects contact numbers for everyone and everything. It didn't bother me that the parents had my mobile number - I would prefer them to ring me than leave me kicking my heels at the end of the meeting because some domestic emergency had made them late.

You're quite right, of course. When I was a Brownie and Guide there would have been no way of contacting the leaders during meetings or even while we were away at camp.

[WankersHacksandThieves]

Well we seem to have managed without for 11 years :) I'm sure if I didn't turn up someone would call me. Or i'd call another parent and get them to grab my child too. I don't know, I just feel that as it's not their job, they shouldn't feel on the spot by having hundreds of parents knowing their personal mobile.

I managed to get all the way through Brownies in the 1970s without having a phone in the house at all never mind a mobile :) But then we all walked ourselves there and back, even during the strikes when we had no streetlights. Different world now.

[MaudOnceMore]

Yes, but parents and carers need to be able to contact the leaders at the meeting for those rare or not so rare occasions when (say) their car breaks down on the way to pick-up and they need to warn the leader they're going to be late. I say that as an ex-leader.

[WankersHacksandThieves]

Re the contact number thing. My boys have been in Scouts for 11 years and I've never officially had a phone number for the leader (of whatever age pack/troup). These have all been well run groups and we've been over the moon with the opportunities that they've had through the organisation. We have email addresses and a closed Facebook page and of course we are issued with contact numbers for emergencies for camps. I would never store those or use them for any other purpose than they've been given though. I do have access to a phone number for area leaders.

I would never expect a private phone/mobile number of a leader. There are other ways to contact them, the main one being in person at pick up time. They have my number of course.

I know there are many issues with the way the OPs group is run, but I wouldn't put not having a phone number on the list.

[MaudOnceMore]

Yes, I feel alarmed, too. My hunch is that this is one of those old school leaders who has dealt with the arrival of Go! and the general tightening up of the rules on record keeping and accounts by ignoring them. As such, I still tend to think it's a case of incompetence rather than financial fraud, but I hope OP will take up ZebraOwl's offer, as that will at least give an initial indication of what might be happening.

[ZebraOwl]

Meep. Meep. All of the meeps. And some other noises of Alarm And Agitation.

It's not unheard of for first contact to be informal, but you should still register your DD online through "Join Us" (or give consent for the Unit Leader to do so using details you provide) & complete the "Starting Brownies" form. If your DD isn't on Go! (the national membership database, to which members are transferred from Join Us - with their [parents'] consent, obviously!) she is not actually a member of Girlguiding, and as such is not covered by their insurance etc. If you'd be willing to send me your DD's full name & DOB I can search for Go! for her (if we can PM images I will happily send you pic of my card confirming I'm a Leader + photo ID etc) if you'd like.

Obviously the loss of £25 is serious in & of itself but I'm now HUGELY concerned about the whole set-up of the Unit in terms of children potentially being put at risk. And our County thought we had issues with the Brownie Unit that were doing colouring-in every week... (Am of course worried that it is in my County: do other Guidey people feel the same?)

OP please don't let this experience put you off Brownies/Girlguiding though - it really is (mercifully!) very much out of the ordinary.

Please feel free to PM me if you'd like any advice on who to contact/what you need to say etc.

[redexpat]

I started this thread thinking the leader was well meaning but slightly incomptent on the admin side, which is fine if you accept your shortcomings and put processes and mechanisms in place to deal with this. But she hasnt, and the fact that youve never signed the form is ringing alarm bells. Has she never put her numner on a letter home? If i was district commisioner I would want to know about this so I could put it right. I would insist on only doing bank tranfers from now on.

[MaudOnceMore]

For reasons I never understood, Girlguiding UK declined to adopt the online system that Scouts use, so arrangements are more ad hoc for Guides and Brownies. The drawback of direct payments is that the sort of account that units have to have - one with more than one signatory - isn't eligible for online banking and so I could only check who'd paid by visiting the branch (which, after my nearest one closed, was a bus ride away). The line that unit leaders have to tread is a balance between what works for the parents and what works for them.

When Girlguiding changed its promise a few years ago to remove any mention of God, there was a Brownie pack in the news because the leader wouldn't accept the changes and had in effect gone rogue, running the pack outside the Girlguiding structure. I'm beginning to wonder if this is that unit!

[BishopBrennansArse]

The scout group two of my kids attends has a trackable online payment facility and for cash it's a no cash no form accepted system so if the form is there and it's not paid online then cash has been received.

We also have to fill in permission slips every term for activities, photos etc.

Sounds very disorganised and worthy of a complain to District.

[Overthinker2016]

Again, you should withdraw your daughter then, seeing as the volunteers are so incompetent.

[MaudOnceMore]

Again, that's not in accordance with Girlguiding's rules. You should have been asked for your contact details, details of an emergency contact if there's an urgent problem and you can't be reached, health and allergy etc information and in return you should have been given contact details for the unit leader and the division/district commissioner. All this used to be done via a form called Starting Brownies (although I've got a feeling that form might have been superseded since I left but there must have been some kind of replacement).

If you do want to speak to someone about your concerns, I suggest you ring Girlguiding HQ. They should be able to identify your local commissioner and put you in touch.

[user1475002412]

We didnt fill out any paperwork at all when dd joined. It was all very informal, everyone joined through word of mouth. I only knew about it because I'm friends with a woman who knows the leader via church.

[MaudOnceMore]

I don't think it's unreasonable to take this up the chain (to the division or district commissioner) but on the basis that funds are not being handled properly and there are no receipts being issued, not that the money's been stolen. It's also bizarre that parents don't have contact details for the leaders; perhaps they're not using the Starting Brownies form, either. This things are certainly worth mentioning but the last couple of posters are right to say that, if you really thought the leaders were incompetent and unable to provide a safe environment for your child, the logical step would be to take her away.

[Bestthingever]

So you've told her you believed you've paid for something and she chooses not to address that and complains about 'unkindness'? That's shocking. Your comment was absolutely fine. I would go above her head. I hope it gets sorted.

[HardofCleaning]

I have to agree with Overthinker2016 if you genuinely feel she stole from you, or that she is irresponsible you would surely remove your DD from brownies. If not then clearly you still feel that all the free labour she puts in exceeds the hassle from her admin failures. I can understand politely chasing up the loss of £25 but it shouldn't be aggressive or public.

[Overthinker2016]

Christ Almighty, I can't believe all the posts saying this is theft escalate it. It's not theft, it's a mix up.

I'd love to see some of you lot giving up hours of your week every week to do something for other people's children. Really can't believe how entitled some people are.

OP your facebook post was slightly aggressive in tone I'd say. You could have direct messaged the leader and said nicely that you think there's been a mix up but instead you came over all officious in a public facebook post. If you hadn't done that the leader probably wouldn't have felt the need to hand out a letter. She is a volunteer after all, not your employee.

I would just remove your child from the Brownies tbh seeing as you feel the service provided by the volunteer isn't up to scratch. I'm sure that will be better for everyone.

[averylongtimeago]

@LastLeaf and anyone else thinking of volunteering with girl guiding- if you go on the girl guiding website and go to the "join us" section, there is an online form. Fill it in and leaders in the area you specify are given your details and should get in touch with you. I bet there are other units near you who would love to see you!

[Awwlookatmybabyspider]

She won't put up with unkindness. Well you won't put up with being robbed soft and basically being called a liar. saying you'd not brought tickets when you clearly had. This is financial abuse

[CakesRUs]

She's taken your money. I would be annoyed. If you stay there, next time they need money, put it in an envelope, clearly marked how much money is in it, what it's for and your daughter's name - you can even put a note with the same details on it. They should give out receipts.

[ZebraOwl]

OP, as midgetjen said, when your DD joined the Unit a section of the "Starting Brownies" registration form you [should have] completed covers photo consent. (I mentioned said form earlier, when talking about contact details for your local Commissioner & your worrying lack of contact details for the Unit Leader.)

[LastLeaf]

KERALA As an ex leader I was always transparent with our finances and would never have expected one of my parents to "suck it up" re £25 just because I gave up my free time!

[TreeTop7]

I paid £50 cash for school meals once, several years ago. I handed it to one of the school admins but it apparently vanished and weeks later I was chased for the money, out of the blue. It was resolved, but I decided then that I wouldn't ever be paying cash for anything that cost more than a fiver. Cheques and bank transfers are safer.

For now, stuck to your guns. Request the refund again (on the original Facebook post if necessary).

[midgetjen]

I think that the photo permission boxes are on the joining form you would have filled in when dd first started but maybe a current leader could clarify?