To think that you shouldn't punish someone else's child indirectly if yours is naughty?

[user1477282676]

DD is 8. We're not in the UK....her best mate was meant to be coming to play today. We're on school holidays and she's been looking forward to this a lot. They usually see one another once or twice a week out of school....they totally love one another.

The Mum has called me to say that their DD has been naughty all morning so they don't feel they can "reward" her with a visit to my DD.

AIBU in thinking this is not right? If it were my DD I'd take her to her mate's house but let her know that she would be having screen time removed that evening or for however long was appropriate as a consequence of her behaviour.

DD is upset...it did cross my mind that perhaps the friend doesnt want to come...and that this is an excuse but they're the sort of people who'd just come out and be honest I think.

Somebody said it is a cosequence not a punishment I agree with this the girls behaviour impacted another person this is a reaction to actions so maybe the girl will take this on board

Thanks sarah, I agree but to him it's punishment nonetheless as he fights the removal so much and gets so upset.. but appreciate the reassurance :)

Sometimes consequences can be unpleasant, that's life.

I don't punish as such, things like withdrawal of privileges or naughty step seem illogical to me.

I do also think though that focussing on positive behaviour is far more effective than either punishments or natural consequences.

If you've started that you don't do punishments at all, can I ask what happens if child misbehaves?

Depends on that misbehaviour.

I was raised without punishments, so came naturally to me.
I don't think punishment teaches a child very much.

Of course YANBU. The other mother is being rude by breaking an arrangement.

My children get spoken to if they are in the wrong, they then have to opportunity to explain themselves and make amends for it. And before anyone says it, I don't mean the ineffectual "now that isn't very nice darling" called weakly from across the room. Proper, stop whatever you or they are doing, eye level, talk to them. Discipline is about teaching them how to behave well, and it's an ongoing thing not best facilitated by arbitrary sanctions which just create confusion.

That is not to say I tolerate bad behaviour. I have seen children hitting their parents on the school run while they say no IPad! No seeing x! No sweets! I have no doubt they carry it through, but the behaviour recurs and so do the threats. It always seems like a strange grasping for some sort of authority and something to lean on, rather than interacting with their children effectively.

It's not a battle to be won, it's a relationship.

SatsukiKusakabe yo raise interesting points.

It always seems like a strange grasping for some sort of authority and something to lean on, rather than interacting with their children effectively.

I have never punished, focussed on relationships instead.

A very wise approach, SatsukiKusakabe.

I am generally not a big fan of extrinsic 'punishments' either but in certain circumstances I think they can be useful.
Just because behaviours recur that doesn't mean they are useless. I'm sure having a connecting conversation with your child does't guarantee that the behaviour will never recur again.
Whatever method of discipline you use you are looking to increase positive behaviour and reduce negative behaviour or mistakes. If there was a method that meant children never misbehaved again I'm sure everyone would be using it.

And the one child I knew who was never punished soon got wise to the fact she could do whatever she liked then very articulately explain to her mother why she had done what she'd done, say sorry then d the same 10 minutes later. I had enough of her awful behaviour in the end (including deliberately stamping on my crawling babys fingers when she was 5) and stopped doing play dates. I felt bad as her mother had told me the child had no other friends.

Yes, lots of things can be useful in the short term, but it depends on what your long term goal is.

Of course certain behaviours will recur; as I said it's an ongoing process. But I would address the behaviour itself and the cause rather than using something unconnected to get a result. I think having your focus on removing "things" stops you dealing with what's actually going on, and personally I've never seen it really work. I don't want my child to stop hitting me for e.g because he wants to go to his friends house.

I do find though that things are less likely to continue if you spend time getting to the root of the behaviour though, and children don't get jaded with being "punished" and actually take it in more when you speak to them.

If he's still swinging his light sabre at his sister and has been warned, light sabre removed, but it's not arbitrarily done just to get his cooperation in another area.

That sounds like a different situation. No punishment does not mean no consequences, and a forced apology is the not the end goal. You have to flexible to the situation is the point - it's not one size fits all for every situation.

Agree completely satsuki

I think sometimes an unconnected or loosely connected incentive or punishment can work well if it is alongside teaching the real life reasons for certain behaviours.
I think it would be a difficult transition for teens who have been used to having chats about behaviour when they enter adulthood and there are unconnected consequences for behaviour all the time. Pay being related to attendance at work, the criminal justice system etc.
Most parents and schools use some form of incentive/punishment based discipline and most kids manage to enter adulthood able to control the impulse to hit people/steal etc so to say that the methods the vast majority of people use don't work in the long term isn't right imo.

If your child attends school then I can guarantee someone is using behaviour charts, attendance awards, missed playtimes etc to discipline your child even if you're not doing it yourself.

Choosing not to punish does not mean I seek to control my children's interactions with the world at large, there are lots of things they will encounter in the real world that I will not be doing at home, it doesn't mean I won't prepare them, guide them, or help them build resilience for meeting them. Home is not school or work, and nor should it resemble them in my view.

They do use charts etc at my child's school. The school has 30 children to "manage". Instilling values, good behaviour etc is the role of the parent, and I use a different approach.

bumsex, yes. my children have never been punished at home or at school.

Children will learn values and how to behave from everything they see particularly adults at home and at school.

Yes, absolutely.
I don't punish animals, my OH, elderly relatives or children.

Quite disrespectful.

Pretty standard for animals to be trained with treats (and inversely punished for the absence of wanted behaviour by denying treats).

Elderly relatives or my dh I wouldn't consider myself to have a responsibility to teach.

I'm not sure what your point is any more. I was answering the question what do you do if you don't punish. It is largely irrelevant to me what others do with their children or their dogs or if the school does it differently. It doesn't alter what I do or consider to be right.

Just wondering that if you consider punishing not to be right why you send you child to an environment for the majority of their waking time that punishes them?