DDs voices

[MummyEire]

Posting on here for traffic

I have posted before about Dd and self harming and some background information about bereavement,school changes,abuse and you were all so helpful so thank you flowers
I don't know how to link but here is my previous thread www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/2801692-To-think-my-DD-needs-help

DD went back to school yesterday after a lovely Christmas holiday together planning all sorts of adventures for the new year .

She's been sent home early from school today because she was absolutely hysterical and they couldn't calm her down. In the middle of a lesson she's burst out crying saying 'he's touching me ,tell him to stop,tell him to stop talking' . Her teacher said she was shaking,struggling to breathe whilst crying and pastoral staff couldn't calm her down. When they tried to help her stand up and get out the lesson she started fight back and scream, (She can't stand people touching her) so the class had to move into another classroom

She refuses to engage with counsellors/services to a point where she won't say a word in the sessions . I don't know how to handle today's situation. Do I talk to her about this today or let her rest?

And therapists that we have been referred to do know. Not all of them have been bad. Some have been great,DD had a few sessions where the therapist spoke and observed her body language and how she reacted to certain things being said but after a while there was a point where she needed to talk in these sessions.

myoriginal

Why should the teachers know? They should accept MH issues. Especially if there are councillors involved.

Why they maybe should not know?

1. DD does not want them to. This is insanely personal and telling others when she explicitly told DM not to (when these 'others' are people that don't need to know) is a breach of trust

1. DD may feel dis-empowered, victimized, voiceless, and worthless. Do you think it will empower her, give her confident in the fact that her voice is heard when her mother goes directly against her wishes?

1. Teachers are humans. Some are brilliant, some aren't. Some victim blame. Some gossip. When teachers gossip students may overhear. The consequences can be awful.

1. Teachers can also bully. This should be told to people DD and DM TRUST. not to some random person that happens to be a teacher.

Privacy and control is a big thing for my dd. In the past she hasn't been able to have privacy or control of the situation so she turned to things like cutting/burning. She is aware that certain people will have to know about what happened and she's fine with that. People like class teachers do not need to know.

DD's been getting messages from school friends and doesn't know how to respond. She's asked me for help and I've told her I'd get back to her. Should she just say she was having a bad day,wasn't feeling very well.
20 others saw dd breakdown so obviously others will have now found out

Does she feel able to explain in a small way?
'some bad stuff happened when I was younger and I just got a bit freaked out because no one was listening when I said I didn't want to hold hands.'

She doesn't want them to start guessing what happened especially as she didn't freak out until after they were sat back down and no longer holding hands.

She's had some texts saying 'do you have mental issues?' , 'are you okay?' 'Were you raped?'

That's a really shit situation.

...lie and say it was an allergic reaction to a migraine medicine? Some of them cause hallucinations (probably.)

Either that or telling them a basic outline of the truth. Big hugs to her :( school peers can be so difficult to deal with.

Saying something like.

"Yes, I have mental health issues. Thank you so much of caring about me. Xx"

May be appropriately vague? She does have MH issues. But they don't need to know why/what they are. Maybe that could keep them from guessing?

What else...

Yes, privacy and control. DD may be ashamed. She has no reason to, but these reasons are very valid. Saying stuff like, oh don't feel this way isn't helpful.

So, you sound great, OP. I'm not sure why my made these allegations, however, the fact that they were made is also a sign of how careful you have to be. Not because there's a reason to feel ashamed and please make sure DD knows that. But many people have weird notions where sexual abuse is concerned. Whether they want to blame you, DD, want to be overly involved, want to be sure nobody triggers DD...

Thank you . You two have been so helpful. I suggested some of the things you have said but she didn't want to mention mental health issues because she hasn't been diagnosed with anything.

She's answered the texts with 'I just wasn't feeling so good today,thank you for caring xx'

I've found that answering questions with bizarre bluntness works.

"what happened to your arms?"
"porcupines really don't like baths. Seriously, all I did was add bubbles and then I plonked him and it all went badly wrong..."

"do you have mental issues"
"yes, I'm mad as a herd of spoons."

It might not work for her though. The other thing I'd say is to beware of teachers who try to help. My maths teacher told the class I was upset because my dad died, which given I was being bullied at the time was not very helpful at all...I later found out that his father had died at a similar age wanted to make sure everyone was nice to me.

Also, she showed you her arms. Don't underestimate how much she trusts you. I can count on one hand the number of people I showed my arms to.

It's the daily mail, but that was one of the first things when I typed in hallucinations sideffectmof medication. And the daily mail has to be useful once in a lifetime. Right?

I think the text she sent is perfectly fine. She could also send them this link?

www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-3451468/Common-antibiotics-trigger-DELIRIUM-Drugs-cause-confusion-hallucinations-agitation-weeks-study-warns.html
Or a similar one?

I try to avoid the DailyFail but that could be a useful link.

I love the plant answers. Dd can be very sarcastic so she will love those.

I've been advised by a Crisis team to take her to the GP and ask to be seen by a different doctor.

DD is a lot calmer now and for the first time,today she's opening up to me. The voice is her abusers voice,telling her to hurt herself because she let out the secret but is only there when a flashback happens.

I love the blunt answers*

I have DID stemming from my past, so maybe not the same. But that voice of the abuser is very common, a more extreme version is called an introject in DID. Its where the abuser seems to take form to make you hurt yourself, carry on the mission so to speak. It can be very scary but it is a survival mechanism, done to subconsciously behave in a way the abuser would condone in order not to get in trouble with the real life abuser. Like many negative coping mechanisms it stops being helpful later on in life.
I'm so glad she's told you, that's an amazing first step.

Thank you . I haven't heard of DID or an introject before so I will read up about it.

I just wondered if you feel things that aren't actually happening. Dd says she can physically feel someone touching her when no one is

Yes. This does happen to me.

Also may be helpful to read up on body memories relating to that?

I do experience it as part of flashbacks too and it gets really hard for me to tell what is happening at that point in time- I know that me kneeling in my front room tying my shoe is true, and I know me kneeling in front of my abuser tying his shoe is also true, so what one is happening right now? For example. What I've learnt to do is do something, anything, to change the situation. If kneeling, stand up. I didn't stand up when doing his shoe- therefore this must be the real one, where I'm in my front room. Then proceed with grounding techniques.

Sometimes I feel like someone's touching my shoulder, as one abuser used to do that a lot. So I put on a heavy jumper.

I'm sorry you had to go through that .

Sounds exactly like what dd experienced. She said she could feel his hands on there and that she seriously thought for a moment he was there

hi mummyeire
I'm no doubt going to say something wrong here.mental health is such a vast problem so take what I say with the meaning I'm starting with which is I care. I have terrible way of wording so often comes out as complete gobble...
I'm so sorry for you and your daughter. what an utter b**stard that person was.that is one thing to keep telling her.literally call him all the scummy words and tell her what happened was on him. not her.
ask her to think of all the other girls who mmight have had the same thing happen.what would she tell them right now. would she hurt them or would she hold them.would she attack them or would she tell them how brave and wonderful they are for being so strong in getting through each day.ask her. and then tell her this is exactly what she must do inwardly. tell herself she is brave and so wonderful for being as together as she is even if she does feel things are fallen apart.
shes here she is a survivor.
one line we found helpful. "thoughts not facts" over and over keep saying it. what she thinking might seem very real.might seem true but thoughts are our minds conversations not actuals. and sometimes with what we go tough in life they can either hinder or help.
ask her if you can hold her.and then squeeze her really tight in a cuddle. "this is mumy hun, this is me holding you,this is what is real." that man is gone or not here anymore. she is safe. keep telling her she is safe.
when she has the ptsd flashbacks could she replace the hands on him with a funny character or her favourite cuddly. we found eyeore did the job lol. souns daft but in that moment we shouted eyeore or she did in her head and instead of his hands it was replaced with eyeore paws. took time but worked a treat. and we got her a beautiful toy for her bed. and a key ring for her school bag.
you can get through this.it might take time.it might go completely.it might be something to get under control but you can get to a place where it ok. she can. girls have,tell her many many girls have.she isn't alone.

also mindfulness. try searching online for body scan meditation.its all about being present and there are some great videos and audios.even on youtube. mindfull breathe techniques bringing you back to the here and now. then the body scan feeling the body, start with the feet,the socks on the toes.the arch of the foot,the hee on the floor.etc.all the way up the torso,the sick feeling in the gut breathe into it,breahte it out and instead feel the t-shrit the clothes surrounding the tummy. the arms do they feel heavy,soft,tired, the shoulders,breathe in and out briging them down unclench. etc. all the way to the head it take you. obviously I'm rubbish at it haha and the guided ones are much better.
but its helped so much. also the visualisation.we found some wonderful ones on youtube that took her to the beach. to swimming,to running with wolves.
just anything to bring her back to the present. a bit like the eyeore thing just bringing it back.stopping her spinning.
take care. I'm so sorry.for both of you.it mus thut to see her suffering and to no what happened.
holding you all close.

kateandme thank you so much,everything you have said will be so helpful . The cuddly toy idea is brilliant,will help a lot especially with moments like today.

She's had another bad flashback about an hour ago. She was in her room and next think I hear is 'mum,please make this stop.' It's so heartbreaking. when she's feeling a bit better I will definitely mention the cuddly toy idea.

What really helped me is a silly saying I read online.

'Thoughts are not Santa Claus and they cannot hurt me'.

Became a bit of a mantra sometimes and I still have a Santa figurine at my keychain... and a Santa in a semi-visible position in my office (easily visible for me but not for the person sitting at the other side of the desk).

I've never had a flashback like your DD. probably because I'm so 'good' (it's not really good, obviouly) at shutting everything down and because I'm older. (But the down shutting has many negative sideeffects, so I had to 'unlearn' this.)

I agree, she needs something to bring her back to the present.

I grew up in a country where Santa isn't really done (Santa ismore of a thing nowadays, but not when I was a teen/kid. And we had Saint Nick, but that's somehow different, and he was blue in my elementary school... Anyhow). so for me it's a double thing. "You're in the Uk, you're in your office (bedroom/kitchen/car). These are your thoughts. They are like Santa clause. Santa cannot hurt me. Santa cannot hurt anyone."

Some people wear scarfs, because when they were grabbed their necks were exposed, for example. So, it's a way to distinguish.

I would have never thought of a cuddly toy, but it sounds like a great idea.

Maybe at a later point a hobby that promotes body awareness and control (maybe dance, for example)? I do martial arts and it has helped me a lot.

But I personally do think that one of your next goals needs to be to get DD to talk to a counsellor. (A good one, btw. There are many kind of shittty ones around, imo)

But yes, kate's point is imo very good. these are all personal experiences and we're all different. And in my case my trauma wasn't in my childhood, which makes it very different as well. Well, she actually has already said all that's to say about it, in a much more eloquent way.

aww mummyeire its not mean to be anything t odo ith me but you've filled my heart with warmth,just to know that perhaps ive helped you both ven a little with some relief with all shes going through. oh god I pray it helps. give it time to,it might not work instantly but its about replacing his horrid image with the good.
with the school thing,is she brave enough to say "I'm going through some stuff but its mine and I don't want to talk about it" her arms its tough,people still don't understand mental health or self harm. and there will always be the lovely kind folk and the little shits that will say all the wrong thing.again though tell her whatever the reaction she knows herself,she knows she good and kind and good and she knows the fight shes on.they don't so cant comprehend her journey. she is she alone,not them don't let them cloud or mar or make life worse. she has enough to fight without letting them in too.
tell them" listen its just something in my life right now that I cant or don't want to talk about and you can tmake me nor should you be cruel to me.you have.no.idea and if you want to do anything try being kind because it might just help me not make me feel more shit"
or "it says more on who you are in your reactions thatn who I am why don't you thin on that.!"

and of course to the nider concerned ones " I'm just going through something really tough but I cant talk about it,could you just give me time and support right now.be there for me please guys.i no its hard and you might all be confused but so am I so I just need you to be my friends"

I personally, as somebody that self-harmed and kept it a secret for years (nothing to be proud of btw!) but I didn't have that relationship with my mother... wore fishnet wrist warmers.

People don't think you have something to hide because they're in theory semi-see through. But factually they have the effect of making scars etc invisible. And they are/were (?) seen as a fashion item and not a coverup.
Or less 'goth' wrist warmers' and the excuse of being cold?
I'm not trying to give self-harm tips here, btw. But there are legitimate reasons to keep scars hidden.

Or taking her out of PE might be an option?

Good luck. You sound like a really great mother. The fact that she trusted you enough is really really great. Hugs.