Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think this isn't homophobic?

135 replies

LeeFiora · 01/01/2017 06:48

Was watching a film, The Family Stone, the other day, and the reaction one of the characters gets to a comment she makes is really bothering me.

Basically the character says that if she had kids, she wouldn't mind if they were gay but that due to the mindset of society at large it would be easier for them to be straight. The other characters are absolutely disgusted by her and she is shamed into leaving.

The thing is, that's exactly the view I hold. I have a small child and will absolutely wholeheartedly support any loving relationship she gets into as she gets older. I do think it would be easier on her to be straight as I'd like her to be able to, for example, hold hands with her partner in public or be able to hug and kiss them without people tut-tutting it, as I have very unfortunately seen happen.

AIBU to think this isn't a homophobic point of view?

OP posts:
Katy07 · 01/01/2017 10:46

Of course if you wanted to actually change the person or that specific thing about them then it's different. All I'd want to change is the negative attitude.

1horatio · 01/01/2017 10:46

It was the context!!

She talked about nature vs nurture and the cause for homosexuality. And whether the gay couple adopting a child were 'worried about that' because they haven't found the 'gene' yet.

With that context?!?

creakyknees13 · 01/01/2017 10:47

Bravedancing, I'm not surprised your mother's comments made you feel like shit but they're not the same as to what we are referring to here

They are more extreme, yes, but essentially it is the same thing. Wishing someone was not gay 'for their own sake' is hurtful to that person even if it comes from a place of kindness. It's a fundamental part of their personality and to hear that your parent wishes that you had been different would hurt. Being gay is not the same as being ill or disabled. It's more comparable to race in that sense. Being disabled is difficult and can be painful and of course a parent would wish that their child did not have to suffer mentally or physically. Being gay is only difficult because there are a bunch of idiots who have decided that it is wrong. That is slowly being challenged. It will change. The shit that was spouted about race in the 50's, 60's and 70's etc is now plainly unacceptable. If you were mixed race and your grandparent or another relative turned to you and said 'I wish your mum had picked a white partner and you had been white because your life would be easier', you would feel like shit, right? It's the same if your parent wishes you had been straight.

1horatio · 01/01/2017 10:49

Oh, and she called being gay 'challenged'.

When a deaf gay man was sitting at the table,

And she basically asked the couple whether they felt it was ok to adopt because the child may turn out to be gay. How is that not homophobic?!?

I'm bisexual and yes, I do think that being straight is easier. I can compare being gay bashed to now being seen as straight when walking around with my OH and DD. so....

But the way this was phrased and the context made her sound very ignorant, inconsiderate and homophobic!

BraveDancing · 01/01/2017 10:52

Rdoo - I don't know. Those kind of comments feel related - the central message being that you didn't want your kids to be gay but you'd overlook it. My mum, obviously, was a bit more heavy handed than the OP seems to be but it feels very similar to me. I could be wrong, of course, but I still think it ties into those attitudes - gay is tolerated not celebrated.

1horatio · 01/01/2017 10:54

How can anybody not see that this is 'benign' homophobia masked as concern and phrased in a very hurtful way?!!

1.:
Being worried about nature vs nurture/turning the baby gay...

m.youtube.com/watch?v=Mhev_TsgOBw

2.:
'I just hope any parent wouldn't want their child to be challenged to be challenged like that'
'Patrick (a deaf and gay man), you must understand'

m.youtube.com/watch?v=MB5PMwcYLqg

creakyknees13 · 01/01/2017 10:54

Oh, and she called being gay 'challenged'. When a deaf gay man was sitting at the table, And she basically asked the couple whether they felt it was ok to adopt because the child may turn out to be gay. How is that not homophobic?!?

Yeah, just found the clip on youtube and it was worse than I remembered. It was horrifying. Suggesting that they should not adopt because the cause for gayness had not been found and 'it could be due to environment'. I would have told her to fuck off out of my house and never darken my door again. The family were remarkably restrained. I can't understand how anyone would watch that scene and think that actually SJP was not wrong in what she said and that the family were the ones overreacting.

Rdoo · 01/01/2017 10:55

Creakyknees, we are not talking about saying to your gay son or daughter 'I wish you weren't gay because life will be harder'. That would be extremely insensitive when they should have nothing but support.

Birdsgottafly · 01/01/2017 10:56

"" We do live in Brighton though (previously London) so maybe I'm naive and we live in a bubble.""

You couldn't be openly gay (if you were male) were I live. You would get persecuted, windows put in etc.

In regards to people of African decent, it was similar, up until about four years ago and there was a major incident, which included beatings and stabbings, some of the culprits went to Prison. The few black people that live in the area, tend to keep a low profile.

Two men couldn't walk round holding hands etc.

As a Mother of a teen girl with LDs and S&L issues, I understand exactly what she means. I wouldn't change my DDs personality and she is doing well on her mainstream college course, but life is tougher than in needs to be, because of other people's ignorance/nastiness/bigotry.

1horatio · 01/01/2017 10:56

Any parent would want a normal child
When their beloved son is gay and deaf.

When she beforensuggested they could make the adopted child gay and wouldn't want that.

So, suggesting that the family would like Patrick to be different, suggesting that they shouldn't adopt because they could turn the child gay and make it challenged.

She's clearly homophobic

creakyknees13 · 01/01/2017 11:00

Creakyknees, we are not talking about saying to your gay son or daughter 'I wish you weren't gay because life will be harder'. That would be extremely insensitive when they should have nothing but support

So we are talking about just secretly thinking it? Or maybe saying it to your friends but not to your child? The OP was about the film and saying that holding those views and expressing them was actually not homophobia and not wrong.

Birdsgottafly · 01/01/2017 11:00

X post, she's incredibly ignorant, she'd probably have the attitude that my DD shouldn't have children, or people with any disabilities, as well.

creakyknees13 · 01/01/2017 11:02

Any parent would want a normal child. When their beloved son is gay and deaf

Horrible. Poor guy having to deal with that shit in his own home. He is lucky to have a mum like that. She is either just a horrendous person or has some sort of personality disorder.

1horatio · 01/01/2017 11:03

creaky

Thanks.

As I said, as somebody that was assaulted for being gay I understand that sentiment.

But it was the whole phrasing: 'Nature vs nurture, turning an adopted baby gay when any good parent would want their child to be normal and not challenged.'

If I applied this to my situation... should I not have a child because I should want DD to be 'normal' and not ' challenged'? Because I could pass the 'bisexuality' gene on to her? Or raise her 'that way'?

And seeing as, according to people that think the way the SJP character does, I should want DD to be 'normal', does that make me a bad parent?

1horatio · 01/01/2017 11:04

Correction:

Assaulted for being perceived as gay. I'm bi. But I highly doubt that matters to bigots, shrug...

Rdoo · 01/01/2017 11:06

Bravedancing, there's a difference between someone being intolerant and someone recognising the intolerance in the world.

It's perfectly understandable that someone is perfectly fine with their child or family member being gay but recgonise that not everyone in the world is like them and worry about what their loved one might have to face. That's not homophobia.

Original poster
LeeFiora · 01/01/2017 11:08

I can't understand how anyone would watch that scene and think that actually was not wrong in what she said and that the family were the ones overreacting.

I'm not sure if this comment was directed at me, as I've already said that the character's behaviour was outrageous. But just to clarify, I cherry picked one small part of it because, in this appalling diatribe the concept of what she was saying didn't seem to me on the surface to be particularly bad, although the way she handled it, tried to explain it, and showed such insensitivity to those around her was clearly disgraceful. It stood out for me because I'd normally expect to loathe every word out of the mouth of a character like this, and I was shocked that I saw her logic, in her theory if not her delivery.

OP posts:
yoowhoo · 01/01/2017 11:12

I agree it's not homophobic. I have a guy relative who is openly gay and he holds the same view. His life would have been easier straight. Sadly it's true because a lot of society are still homophobic. Maybe in 20/30 years people won't hold those views anymore. But I doubt it!

Rdoo · 01/01/2017 11:15

Creakyknees, I don't think it would be unusual for a parent to worry about the challenges their gay child might have in life and to maybe repeat those concerns to a friend! That doesn't mean they are homophobic or prejudiced.

Of course, they may just be presenting their homophobia as concern for the person but we can't know that.

clumsyduck · 01/01/2017 11:16

Yeh she does say a lot worse in the film which is why the mum gets so mad

However film aside I don't think wanting an "easier life " for your dc due to bullying etc is homophobic

creakyknees13 · 01/01/2017 11:17

It wasn't necessarily aimed at you- it was just a general comment. However, I AM surprised that you would be troubled by the reaction she got from the family, which is what you said in your OP. I don't at all think that you are a bad person and it is good that you are challenging your thought process. However, it is a mistake to think that all homophobes want gay people to burn in hell. The majority are not that extreme at all- they are the kinds of people who say things like 'I would be gutted if my child were gay'. They genuinely believe it is motivated by concern for the child, as do the people who are opposed to gay adoption. Ultimately it is still a form of homophobia.

Original poster
LeeFiora · 01/01/2017 11:17

My mum, obviously, was a bit more heavy handed than the OP seems to be but it feels very similar to me

BraveDancing you're right, I think I probably would have approached it like that. Thanks for showing me the flipside of my attitude and Flowers to you because it sounds really rough.

OP posts:
creakyknees13 · 01/01/2017 11:20

Creakyknees, I don't think it would be unusual for a parent to worry about the challenges their gay child might have in life and to maybe repeat those concerns to a friend! That doesn't mean they are homophobic or prejudiced

But you said there was a big difference between what the PP's mum said to her and the views expressed on here. So are you saying that the big difference is that in one case, you express your concern to your child and in the other you don't, but privately think it? What if your child is struggling with his/her sexuality but you think they are straight and say something to the effect that you are relieved that they are straight so that they don't face prejudice. How would that make someone struggling with their sexuality feel?

1horatio · 01/01/2017 11:22

Look...

I don't want DD to be bi or gay. I actually think being bi is more challenging, at least in the gay community. But that's a different discussion.

However, if she is I would never say that I'd want her to be straight. Not even because she'd 'have it easier' that way.
On the other hand... there are so many things that would have a much more negative impact on her life. So, I'm just not particularly worried about that.

I'd dell her that I wish society was different, not that I'd want her to be different. Because who we love is a part of us.

However, SJPs character wasn't shamed for saying this, she was shamed for saying this in the whole context of the other horrible things she said.

So... yeah. You don't sound homophobic. SJP's character was homophobic and a few other things.

Gwenhwyfar · 01/01/2017 11:23

"Maybe in 20/30 years people won't hold those views anymore. But I doubt it!"

That's pretty pessimistic. Think of the change in attitudes between the 90s and now. No respectable person under 70 would now admit any kind of homophobic thoughts in public. Yes, they might exist but they're shameful, just like racism. I have seen same sex couples walking hand in hand and kissing in public, but then I live in a city and have lived abroad - I was surprised by the poster's comment about Edinburgh.
If you think of the changes that have already taken place, I think homophobia will be a tiny, tiny minority stance in 20 years time.