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AIBU?

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Original poster

To think this isn't homophobic?

135 replies

LeeFiora · 01/01/2017 06:48

Was watching a film, The Family Stone, the other day, and the reaction one of the characters gets to a comment she makes is really bothering me.

Basically the character says that if she had kids, she wouldn't mind if they were gay but that due to the mindset of society at large it would be easier for them to be straight. The other characters are absolutely disgusted by her and she is shamed into leaving.

The thing is, that's exactly the view I hold. I have a small child and will absolutely wholeheartedly support any loving relationship she gets into as she gets older. I do think it would be easier on her to be straight as I'd like her to be able to, for example, hold hands with her partner in public or be able to hug and kiss them without people tut-tutting it, as I have very unfortunately seen happen.

AIBU to think this isn't a homophobic point of view?

OP posts:
Cel982 · 01/01/2017 09:23

The issue with that scene in the film isn't that SJP's character is being homophobic, exactly. It's that she repeatedly and persistently argues that a son turning out to be gay could not be what the parents would want, in front of the son in question. He's becoming visibly upset and she doesn't have the sensitivity to just shut up.

Of course it's not homophobic to acknowledge that certain aspects of life are still more difficult for gay people, and that as a parent this would be a source of worry and concern. But jumping from this to "therefore I wish you had turned out differently" would be incredibly hurtful.

Original poster
LeeFiora · 01/01/2017 09:27

Thanks for the kind words PPs. It's been a bit hard reading a few of the responses on here, but I came looking for genuine reactions not confirmation of my viewpoint.

I don't think I'm intentionally homophobic but I do see how my reaction to true homophobics is actually slightly homophobic.

Like a PP said, simply by wanting the easiest path for my child I am being negative about being gay. As a comparison, it could be said that it is harder in the world of work for a woman, but if my mother wrung her hands wishing I was a man so my life was easier, it would have done me a disservice. In my eyes, my gender hasn't stopped me and quite frankly I barely notice those sexist idiots on the sidelines who might be making some kind of effort to hold me back.

By saying that it would be easier for my daughter to be straight, I'm giving too much power to the bigots. I'd never dismiss negative experiences, of course, but they shouldn't be at the forefront of my thought process and they certainly shouldn't encourage me to view homosexuality in any kind of negative light.

I feel this may be my first step on the path away from being a helicopter-parenting, overwrought nightmare of a mother Wink

OP posts:
Raines100 · 01/01/2017 09:27

I think there was a time when the comment would have been valid, but today, it sounds outdated. Today, it sounds like a way of dressing up homophobia to make it socially acceptable i.e. 'homosexuality is undesirable because it will be hard for the child ' . It sounds easier to swallow with that last part attached because it appeals to the common instinct to protect children.

Having just watched the clip of the film on youtube, that's clearly what it is. You must know that, OP. It was preceded by a comment about gay adoption and the child 'turning' gay because of his/her environment! SJP's character was rightly shamed into leaving.

SVJAA · 01/01/2017 09:27

You hear it a lot on the pregnancy boards, though, "oh our course I'd love the child if he was disabled, but life is just so much easier if course for children that aren't

I had someone ask if I'd known DS1 would have autism, would I still have had him? I suspect my icy death stare may have answered that question. Same twat when DS2 started diagnosis proceedings commented that I must be gutted but at least DD is "normal". At that point I was very glad I had friends to drag me away, otherwise I might have lost my rag.

Original poster
LeeFiora · 01/01/2017 09:32

it sounds like a way of dressing up homophobia to make it socially acceptable

I'm sorry, but that's absolutely manifestly untrue. Maybe that's how some people see it, but I'm not one of them.

OP posts:
creakyknees13 · 01/01/2017 09:34

I think there was a time when the comment would have been valid, but today, it sounds outdated. Today, it sounds like a way of dressing up homophobia to make it socially acceptable i.e. 'homosexuality is undesirable because it will be hard for the child

Exactly. The 'oh but the children will be bullied' was used to prevent same sex couples from adopting as well. Thankfully it is now an outdated view to hold. It is dressing up prejudice as concern- you are completely right.

Rdoo · 01/01/2017 09:50

If she had kids, she wouldn't mind if they were gay but that due to the mindset of society at large it would be easier for them to be straight.

I think a comment like this, in the UK, is slightly outdated but not homophobic. Provided of course that it's said with genuine concern for the child rather than as a way to cover up homophobia.

If you liked somewhere like Pakistan or Nigeria it would be perfectly understandable.

Watching the movie clip on the Youtube link I think the problem with the character said something like "you would wish for a normal child" suggesting Gay people weren't "normal". I would a flipped at that too and told her to leave.

Rdoo · 01/01/2017 09:56

This post has really got me thinking as I must admit if my DD came out as trans I would have the same attitude as the OP - would love her unconditionally but would prefer it if she wasn't trans. There are so many posts on here proving how much intolerance there is towards trans people.

Absolutely this! I think this is the "new fight" (for the want of a better phrase). I wouldn't care if my child or someone in my family was Trans but I would be worried sick about them.

Original poster
LeeFiora · 01/01/2017 09:56

Yep, she was being a bloody nightmare and given the whole scene it would have been a surprise if they weren't outraged. I just picked that one comment in particular as it was one I didn't think was particularly inflammatory and I wondered if I was wrong in thinking that!

OP posts:
AverageJosephine · 01/01/2017 10:00

Saying that indicates a negative view of being gay. That you think being gay is a disadvantage.

I think it's best if you feel like that not to comment or try to justify your thinking at all. It's hurtful to gay people to hear parents say they would prefer their children not to be gay to avoid having a difficult life.

Rdoo · 01/01/2017 10:05

Saying that indicates a negative view of being gay. That you think being gay is a disadvantage.

No it doesn't, it is saying that society's intolerance and homophobia is a challenge.

GinIsIn · 01/01/2017 10:06

I think using the film the way you have is a bad example - she didn't just say that one comment, and she said it to a family with a gay son who was in the process of adopting a child.

And it IS homophobic, it's just dressed up under an air of compassion. To use a slightly different example - I'm currently 35 weeks pregnant with a son. I have red hair. The number of people who think it's fine to say "ooh I bet you're hoping he gets his hair colour from his dad" astonishes me - it doesn't matter whether it's because they think life will be easier for him or not, it's still offensive.

lovelearning · 01/01/2017 10:11

certain aspects of life are still more difficult for gay people

Certain aspects of life will always be more difficult for gays.

Having children, for example.

It happens naturally for a straight couple.

I don't think any of us would want our children to have a harder life than they must

Children must be educated to be open-minded toward sexuality.

Homosexuality should be accepted, but not actively encouraged.

JaceLancs · 01/01/2017 10:14

I am not homophobic and of my 2 adult DC one is gay
Life is harder for them in all sorts of ways and this saddens me
I would feel the same if my child had an illness or disability
I think we all would like our children to have the easiest passage through life that they can

creakyknees13 · 01/01/2017 10:17

Homosexuality should be accepted, but not actively encouraged

Yes, because most gay people are gay because their parents actively encouraged them to be... Sexuality is not something chosen or changeable. By saying that it should not be actively encouraged, you are suggesting it is wrong.

On that note, did anyone watch the Australian Angry Boys comedy (same guy that did Summer Heights High)? There was this one family where the mum thought her famous skateboarding son would have more of a 'commercial edge' if he was gay. He was straight, but she made him pretend he was gay and sell loads of penis-shaped merchandise. Reminded me a little of that...

Rdoo · 01/01/2017 10:19

Lovelearning:
Homosexuality should be accepted, but not actively encouraged.

What do you mean by this??

SVJAA · 01/01/2017 10:19

Homosexuality should be accepted, but not actively encouraged
Eh? How the fuck can homosexuality be encouraged? If you're gay, you're gay. If you're straight, you're straight. There is no encouragement involved. Oh, and your comment is bullshit and homophobic by the way.

creakyknees13 · 01/01/2017 10:21

I'm currently 35 weeks pregnant with a son. I have red hair. The number of people who think it's fine to say "ooh I bet you're hoping he gets his hair colour from his dad" astonishes me - it doesn't matter whether it's because they think life will be easier for him or not, it's still offensive

Totally. I have siblings with red hair. I have had to hear a load of shit about how I probably have a 'recessive ginger gene' and how lots of people would be 'gutted about having a ginger kid' because they would be bullied at school. Sickening and completely enforces societal prejudice. It suggests that deep down, the person saying it feels the same as the bullies.

BraveDancing · 01/01/2017 10:23

When I came out I got basically that response from my mother. "Are you sure? I'll love you whatever but it is such a difficult life, you'll never be able to get married or have children. I love you but it isn't what I wanted for you and I just have to cry a bit"

And actually, that made me feel like shit. Like I'd let her down in some way. It has also proved demonstrably untrue - I got married, I'm pregnant, I can be affectionate with women. So, yeah, to me, that feels like a homophobic attitude to have - an assumption that being gay is a bad and difficult thing and you'll love your kids in spite of being gay. Why should my sexuality be something people have to overlook in me? And if the issue is with society being shit (and it's not as shit as some people seem to think) then battle that instead.

Having said that, no one is perfect and we all have our prejudices so I don't think it makes you a bad person. Just a person with some unexamined prejudices. But please don't say that if any of your kids do come out. From my experience it can be a very damaging thing to say and it affected my relationship with my mother in a way that lasted until her death.

MsAwesomeDragon · 01/01/2017 10:31

My dd is gay and I'd be devastated if anyone wished her straight because it would be easier for her. Of course life would be easier if she was straight, in the same way it would be easier if she was less shy, or if we had more money, or if she had never been bullied. That doesn't mean I would ever want to change her (I do wish she had never been bullied, but tbf the school dealt with it well when it happened), I just wish the world was more accepting of differences.

BraveDancing · 01/01/2017 10:33

Homosexuality should be accepted, but not actively encouraged.

That's an awful thing to say and deeply homophobic. I think that's why we have festivals like Pride. Because so many of us get this message relentlessly throughout our lives. We should be tolerated, accepted, but not loved, and our love not celebrated, or encouraged or rejoiced in, in a culture which promotes heterosexual romantic love at every turn, and it can be really hurtful. I think love should be celebrated and encouraged, in whatever form that takes.

Rdoo · 01/01/2017 10:35

Bravedancing, I'm not surprised your mother's comments made you feel like shit but they're not the same as to what we are referring to here. She made it about herself and had to have a cry?! Wtf.

Katy07 · 01/01/2017 10:39

You didn't say you wanted to change the world so that your hypothetically gay daughter could kiss her wife. You said you'd like her to be straight so that she could hold hands with or kiss her partner. A subtle but important difference in what was said.
And that's the homophobia in the statement. Not horrific. Not nasty. Just there.
But that's not what she said. She said she wanted her hypothetically gay daughter to be able to kiss her partner but she thinks it would be easier to do that if the daughter was straight. And she's right, it is easier if you're straight. I've had crap in the past from straight people when I've kissed a girlfriend - I wouldn't have had any reaction (except maybe the whole "how nice, when you are getting married"!) if it had been a man. It's a fact of life that life is harder (on the whole) if you're gay, just the same as it if you're autistic, or disabled, or have red hair (personally I always think "lucky sod" to anyone with red hair because who wants to have bog-standard anything but then I've never been mocked for my hair colour). It's not being homophobic or anything, just honest and acknowledging that the world is still full of bigots. It doesn't mean that you're not fighting against the intolerance, just that you realise that equality still hasn't caught up.

GilMartin · 01/01/2017 10:40

I live in Edinburgh. Away from the city centre and possibly away from the strip of gay bars, I wouldn't feel happy living openly as a gay man (by openly, I mean kiss cuddle or hold hands in the street) in the area I live, I haven't seen anyone attacked simply for being gay, but the prevailing attitude very much remains, 'I don't care what they get up to in the privacy of their own home, but they'd better not rub it in my face'. It would be a braver person than me that attempted a public display of affection with a same sex partner.

Depressing. It is tolerance in the very worse sense of the word all in a city which prides itself on being liberal and cosmopolitan.

In that context, I don't think it is homophobic to be worried about what your offspring might have to go through or live a semi closeted life, it is more dispair about other people's small minds.

jmh740 · 01/01/2017 10:45

My 22year old son is gay and I have said in the past I wish he was straight because I believe life would be easier for him as a child he was bullied in primary school in year 6 he was pinched so hard in the face his tooth went through his bottom lip he still has a scar, his high school years were hell with bullying on a number of occasions he told me he wished he was dead so he didn't have to deal with the bullies. As a young man he was stood outside in a garden at a party where 2 men came up behind him and his partner and attacked them for being gay. I'm sure these are just the incidents I know about and he has faced more hostility than I'm aware of. I guess I don't really wish that he was straight I wish that society would be kinder. It breaks my heart to see him struggle so much to fit in.

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