To be HORRIFIED that this might be taught in my daughters school

[NormaStanleyFletcher]

Have any of you come across this? Do you know if this, or other lessons have been presented to your primary (or secondary) age children?

www.transgendertrend.com/teaching-transgender-doctrine-in-schools-a-bizarre-educational-experiment/

There is some research that links several nuero diverse conditions to being trans

I wouldn't assume correlation though, there could be several explainations- like those of us with differently wired brains are already more comfortable with being alittle different so more upfront about not conforming to gender norms. There's also research that indicates those who are nd are more likely to be gay/bi. I suspect the above argument holds more weight with that also. That it's just possibley more difficult for a person whose allways fit every norm to be more open about a differing sexuality etc

I actually have no words...... But I agree in letting children be children, and if they were allowed to, concentrate on the things they should be learning academically.... As this IS the most important when it comes to SCHOOL.

something like 1 in 6 trans people are (diagnosed) autistic. Or was it 1 in 6 autists are trans?

The overlap doesn't surprise me at all. It's worrying, though. I can well see how a vague feeling of 'not fitting in' could be misinterpreted with horrible consequences

multivac - I beleive it is to be sent to all the schools that have already completed one of the "educate and celebrate" courses, which is 100+ schools.

And the whole "educate and celebrate" programme is endorsed by OFTSED and the DfE (included the specific course completed by schools who will receive this booklet, I beleive) so I think it is fair to say the booklet is endorsed by OFSTED.

Transgender issues should not be taught in schools. Children are too young to be 100% sure that they want to be a different gender. Propaganda like this will make some children take decisions they later regret.

As a society, we need to decide whether someone actually CAN change gender. At the moment we legally can, but of course that doesn't extend to athletes for example - a male athlete who "became" a woman would not be allowed to race as a woman in the Olympics. Many women on Mumsnet have written that they are not comfortable with "women" who were born male using the female public lavatory, for example. (I think that they are missing the point - their actually objection is to being sexually assaulted in a public lavatory, not the gender of which their attacker is most comfortable with!)

Either we must accept that a person CAN change their gender, in which case they should be treated as a person of their new gender - no ifs, buts or other caveats - or they CANNOT.

But... A lot of people are not comfortable with this. Surely it is a bigger change for a woman to become a man than it is for a white Scottish woman to decide she is actually a black woman from the Democratic Republic of Congo? Biologically speaking, she is closer to being a black woman than she is to being a white man.

I am not saying that it is right or wrong. But either we CAN change the fundamentals of our physical being - with gender realignment being probably the most extremely fundamental change - or we can't.

Oh and what was in margret thatchers pants mattered, she may have been a cunt but the fact she had one mattered (what she did with it though.....) sane for every other biological female making strides in typically male areas of work education or lufe

*multivac what is supposed to be the right thing to call people who "fully identify" with their gender? I thought it was cisgender.

(How many people fully identify with their gender?!) *

Well, quite. Maybe there is a cisgender person somewhere. But I'm pretty sure it's not Kit's 12-year-old friend.

If you are wondering how much peer pressure can affect the incidences of teenagers identifying as trans, then this might be illuminating:

transgenderreality.com/2015/05/15/omfg-i-have-waited-so-long-teen-goes-from-questioning-to-taking-hormones-in-three-months/

Nurture - you may be right, but do you have a source for that information?

Snatched - "a male athlete who "became" a woman would not be allowed to race as a woman in the Olympics"

Sadly you are a bit out of date there...
www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/jan/25/ioc-rules-transgender-athletes-can-take-part-in-olympics-without-surgery

Much ado about nothing. Who cares how you define yourself genderwise as long as you are not preying on children or coercing anyone! Live and let live.

Where someone's gender falls on the spectrum has never mattered to me one bit. But when someone insists that I remember to address them with certain pronouns that I've never heard of or certain names depending on what gender they feel that particular day, I just mentally give them the finger... cuz, you know, my world just doesn't revolve around you.

Well this won't be for me and I will pull my child out of any lesson touching on this. This is something my children's school will jump at the chance to teach because they recently wanted to teach my 7 year old about wanking, wet dreams and clitorus stimulation. I am not a prude but I decide when my child is ready to take that in and actually understand it. It isn't the schools place.

I'm not surprised there is a large crossover between trans and ASD. Having done the official questionnaires for one and been shown "official" questionnaires for the other, they are disturbingly similar.

The amusing thing, to me, is that I strongly suspect that 'gender fluid', or 'non-binary', or whatever you want to call it, is a direct result of the message "gender is a social construct."

If, as an impressionable youth, you're given the message that gender is not dependent on biology, and at the same time you're looking around and seeing that gender is very clearly defined by your culture, then it seems quite logical that this means you get to identify as the gender that most suits your personality. Or as neither, or both, if that suits better.

I would be really happy if schools stopped indoctrinating children into believing their major identification should be by birth sex. I am sick of the constant separating of children into boys and girls for things where there is no clear difference. And that's before we even get into thinking about the children who feel completely alienated by a "boy" or "girl" label (and who are far more likely to go on to suffer horrendously in our currently-not-that-tolerant-society).

I am a bit annoyed when schools are used as the training ground for trying to change our culture without similar effort being put into the adult population, but I think there are efforts to increase understanding and decrease intolerant language in other areas too, so that doesn't seem to be much of an issue here.

helena

You're okay with DC being taught that they have either pink or blue brains!?

"they recently wanted to teach my 7 year old about wanking, wet dreams and clitorus stimulation."

Must be a private school.........

The amusing thing, to me, is that I strongly suspect that 'gender fluid', or 'non-binary', or whatever you want to call it, is a direct result of the message "gender is a social construct."

I think the bigger problem is the conflation of sex and gender. Gender is a social construct, sex isn't.

""Sex" refers to the biological and physiological characteristics that define men and women.

"Gender" refers to the socially constructed roles, behaviours, activities, and attributes that a given society considers appropriate for men and women.

To put it another way:

"Male" and "female" are sex categories, while "masculine" and "feminine" are gender categories."

apps.who.int/gender/whatisgender/en/

Boom what are girls and boys separated for in your experience? Genuine question as I have primary aged children and from what I can see they are only separated for things like going to the toilet which needs to remain seperated by sex, and sex ed, which again the same. I appreciate older children in co ed schools tend separate out with less girls in stem subject at a levels and less boys in arts etc but suggesting they would have to reject their own gender to participate in the subjects dominated by the other gender isn't the answer either. (And actually same sex schools have much more equal participation in 'girls' and 'boys' subjects than co eds)

My children were not separated by gender to go to the toilet at primary school and are not at secondary school. Both school only have cubicles, so it doesn't matter what gender you were to use them.

"I think the bigger problem is the conflation of sex and gender. Gender is a social construct, sex isn't."
There is no conflation for the gender fluid/non-binary person, from what I can tell, they just happen to see biological sex as irrelevant to their identity.

My dds and d at 2 different primaries - as far as i can see there is no division by sex, apart from toilets and changing for sports.

I am a woman, my daughters will grow into women - we are female. That is the sex we are - I am not non binary, or genderfluid or any of the other permutations that leap out if Pandora's box of many gender stereotypes - I am a female. My personality and the things I like to do are similar to the things my dh likes to do - that doesn't make me a man, or non binary, it makes me hazeyjane.

The cubicals at my kids school are the kind you could stand up to see over. The row of toilets are not somewhere teachers go unless it's written in a kids care plan (disabled toilets normally) or an emergency. Statisticly girls are at much higher risk of sexual assault or harassment from boys than the other way round, a toilet block or changing room both sexes can enter are school would leave girls at risk imo. Add into that the discomfort many girls feel around hitting puberty, privacy is more respectful and considerate imo. I don't mind unisex toilets in resteraunt r shopping centres, I'm pretty relaxed about it personally and will change infront of anyone, but for the sake of girls who at higher risk, more likely to already have been victim of sexual assault or watched their mothers being dv victims more commonly at the hands of men I think they deserve protected spaces when in school.

There is no conflation for the gender fluid/non-binary person, from what I can tell, they just happen to see biological sex as irrelevant to their identity.

I see what you're saying, but I disagree. I have teens and young people online saying they are not a man or a woman, they are nonbinary etc. But they are still a man or a woman (or girl or boy), that is their sex. They are confusing gender with sex IMO. They may feel they have no gender, or do not align to one particular gender, and they are right because gender is a load of bollocks, but they are mistaken in thinking this means they are not part of which ever sex class they were born into.

I have seen teens....I don't have any yet.