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To be HORRIFIED that this might be taught in my daughters school

477 replies

NormaStanleyFletcher · 20/12/2016 13:47

Have any of you come across this? Do you know if this, or other lessons have been presented to your primary (or secondary) age children?

www.transgendertrend.com/teaching-transgender-doctrine-in-schools-a-bizarre-educational-experiment/

OP posts:
GirlScout72 · 21/12/2016 20:49

April

Not exactly as if you'd read further up the thread, you'd see I don't agree.

It is NOT POSSIBLE to be born into the wrong body. It's very possible to profoundly feel like you are in the wrong body, just like anorexics profoundly and unshakably believe they are fat. Doesn't mean they are.

To repeat my comments about Occam's Razor. The most logical explanation is the most likely one. It's highly unlikely that magnificent evolution got it wrong, and we are suddenly seeing an evolutionary cock up where people are trapped in the wrong body. Far more likely that sex role stereotypes are a crock of shit.

That doesn't mean trans people don't exist, but it's a mental illness (and I'm with Jung, most mental illness has it's own logic, why wouldn't kids be rejecting sex role stereotypes, the feeling is pretty sane, not sure the solution currently being touted is sane though) - gender dysphoria is a REAL THING. It's extremely painful and wrecks lives, and for those people surgery, cross sex hormones and living as if you were the opposite sex (you can't actually change sex) is what we should offer so they can live with some level of peace. And they should of course be able to live free from discrimination.

As MostlyHet points out, there is a darker side to this trans business, not only are many what would have been lesbian and not so feminine girls now transitioning but the trans umbrella is very broad. It includes men who have a sexual fetish and get turned on by dressing up as women, and men who have some very bizarre attitudes to women, all demanding, nay insisting, nay churning out death threats if we don't all agree that they are LITERALLY women.

The unintended consequences of 'gender identity' is it erases women as a biological sex class. Any 'gender revolution' that hurts women and girls, who are already oppressed because of their biology in a patriarchal system which polices women through rigid gender (ie sex role stereotype) roles, is a fairly shit revolution in my opinion.

If you have the time, read the entire thread, as I've explained this at length elsewhere.

We don't need to rewrite evolution and biology, we need to throw out 'gender' ...

NinjaLeprechaun · 21/12/2016 21:01

One more, then I really am going...

"Which brings me back to, they haven't really thought about it because they don't need to, it doesn't really affect them, which is patriarchy. Plus they don't really listen to women, have totally ignored the decades of academic study on this subject by women and about women, because once again that's patriarchy."
It's the same as white people and racism in a lot of ways - if you don't have to think about it, you probably aren't going to think about it. Even if you do think about it, and think you understand it, you don't understand it in the same way.

I'm going to Toys R Us to buy my nearly 21 year old LEGOS, obviously I'm a rebel when it comes to toys anyway. But this flow chart sums it up neatly.

To be HORRIFIED that this might be taught in my daughters school
GirlScout72 · 21/12/2016 21:59

Haha, happy shopping.

I do agree, but just because white people don't think about racism, doesn't mean racism isn't a real and valid problem for people of colour. Just because men don't concern themselves with sexism, doesn't mean it's not there, and it doesn't mean they are not benefitting from a patriarchal system, they are benefiting. They can even oppose benefiting from it, they still do.

Same as my experience, as a white person, of the police. I've never been stopped and searched, my parents never had to give me 'the talk' which is widely spoken about in black families. How to deal with the police.

However, my parents did sit me down and give me the 'talk' about men, about rape, about staying safe. As discussed my parents were very sexist so the 'talk' consisted of 'not being a cock tease', wearing demure clothing so as not to provoke sexual assault, not being a 'smart arse' as men don't like it, learning to 'tone down' my opinions as they were not 'ladylike' and to stop 'banging on about feminism or we'll never get you married off' Smile

Even the one unintended pregnancy and termination I had, was a huge rigmarole, my parents were furious. The man involved was not very nice to me, and I was very upset, I asked my dad, 'why did he do it?' and my dad said, 'what did you expect, he could'. My own father called me a 'whore'.

And yet, I overheard my dad coaching my brother about a girl he'd unintentionally got pregnant. I heard my father tell my brother, 'tell her she's a slag, tell her it could be anyone's, tell her it's nothing to do with you'. This is the same dad, who stood my brother on a bar stool in our local rugby club and presented him with a pint and a packet of three durex and in front of a jeering crowd of blokes told him to 'keep up the good work sunshine'. This is the same dad who used to go to 'Gentlemen's evenings' at the Rugby Club (even though my mother sulked for days) and watched 'blue movies' on a big screen, and watched a prostitute was serially fucked by his fellow club members whilst a group of drunk jeering blokes looked on (blokes I should add who are my and my brothers' god fathers, men who have been in and out of my family home all my life, with their wives for family bbqs, parties, and so on).

I don't care if my dad and my brother and their mates have never had to think about it, fuck them, they should.

And I agree on toys, but I challenge you to find me a narrative of a transkid, that doesn't include toy preferences and clothing choices. In fact I challenge you to find me a trans story ANYWHERE that doesn't talk about clothes. I've read hundreds, perhaps thousands now, of transition stories, and I CANNOT find one that doesn't talk about clothes. Not one.

If you look at Mermaids, the current 'authority' on trans kids (they are a single issue charity run by, imho, and this is only my opinion, a woman with munchausen's by proxy but that's by the by and probably libel :-) ) then toy preferencs feature very heavily in their 'in the wrong body' narrative. Your son playing with dolls is, apparently, a very big indicator they are 'in the wrong body'. It's utter bullshit.

When I was a young girl, I HATED dolls, loved lego, converted the only dolly pram I was every bought into a wheelbarrow, got kicked out of the brownies (it was boring and I wanted to be a cub), I was frequently 'misgendered' as I looked like a boy, and generally hated frocks, frills, pink, and anything 'girly'.

I'm not a boy. I'm not gay either, although most kids like me turn out to be gay or lesbian. I'm also not confused, not non binary. I am a woman. I'm proud to be a woman, happy being a woman, and comfortable being a woman. I also know that being a woman, in my culture, means navigating a set of extremely unfair expectations on what a woman is.

Fuck that I say.

PeteSwotatoes · 21/12/2016 22:19

The more I think about all this, the more I suspect that being trans comes from a kind of deep self-hatred and wanting to start your life over again.

The idea of picking your own name, the disgust around so-called deadnaming, and changing your entire body to be something different.

It's like an extreme form of dyeing your hair black and getting a shitload of piercings to become a goth.

"Jill is dead, now I'm Jack".

It's quite sad really.

ageingrunner · 21/12/2016 22:27

There seems to be a correlation between being trans and being brought up in a strongly religious household. And sadly also between being trans and having been sexually abused. Dissociation and an attempt to identify out of being the person who was abused.

ageingrunner · 21/12/2016 22:29

Yy GirlScout. It's always about clothes but we're always told 'it's not about clothes, or goes much deeper than that'
Well, go on then, do tell what else it is...

GirlScout72 · 21/12/2016 22:31

Agree with all of you, I think it's deeply conservative.

And as for what else it might be, just seen this, be prepared! www.reddit.com/r/JoeRogan/comments/4rfodj/transgender_ideologys_dirty_little_secret/

I am not against trans people - clearly they need help and protection. But to conflate dysphoria with fetish does trans people and women (and especially kids) a HUGE disservice.

WilliamHerschel · 21/12/2016 22:37

And I agree on toys, but I challenge you to find me a narrative of a transkid, that doesn't include toy preferences and clothing choices. In fact I challenge you to find me a trans story ANYWHERE that doesn't talk about clothes.

I've seen a video from a conference where a developmental psychologist, who I think specialised in gender identity issues in children, talked about "gender messages" from non-verbal toddlers. An example she gave was of a two year old girl ripping barrettes (hair clips) out of her hair. That's a gender message, apparently. Another example she gave was of toddler boys putting tea towels etc on their heads to imitate having long hair. I'm going to Google and see if I can find a link to the video. It was crazy.

Totherighttotheleft · 21/12/2016 23:08

I'm undecided on the whole transgender thing. I've known two transgender people, both reverted back to male, both had horrific childhoods. I also know a child born with both female and male genitalia, he was given a male name and is now 14 with breasts. I don't think a child should be aware of sexuality. They should just be children. I also believe they should be given the choice as an adult. 18. I teach my children about the world and encourage them to make their own opinions. We are all human as long as somebody is honest, and kind nothing else matters. Transgender kids is wrong

GirlScout72 · 21/12/2016 23:11

Blimey! I don't think this helps trans people really, as eventually this is all going to backlash, making them more villified and misunderstood than they actually already are.

The well adjusted, happy, settled trans folk I know (admittedly not many personally but a few) seem to make peace with it all when they accept they are the biological sex they are, and accept (and they and I mean this with bags of love and affection) they are a little bit 'weird'. And that's OK, takes all sorts to make a world Smile

By the definition of that doctor above, I would have been a transboy, and that makes me want to cry, as I am most assuredly a woman. I hate sexism, I don't hate being a woman.

What a mess!

GirlScout72 · 21/12/2016 23:14

Totherightotheleft

I hear you. Just to pick up on one thing, intersex is not trans, it's a chromosomal disorder. And yes years ago those kids WERE 'assigned a gender at birth' often with disastrous results, now I think docs take a 'watch and wait' approach.

As for the rest, I agree that kids should just be left to be kids, and helped to understand that sex is fixed, and boys and girls can be, do and feel anything, and it be OK.

WilliamHerschel · 21/12/2016 23:25

I would have been a transboy by that definition too. And I have ASD so it's even more likely. My two year old dd pulls out hair clips, screams if I put a dress on her and loves vehicles but she does put tea towels on her head so who knows what gender message she's giving me. Genderfluid perhaps.

ageingrunner · 21/12/2016 23:30

There's no possible other reason for a baby pulling out hair clips apart from the baby wants to be a boy.
Someone who believes that is NOT the kind of person who should be dealing with vulnerable young people and their parents.
I really look forward to the day when these quacks are held to account and the lawsuits start rolling in to their offices.

Totherighttotheleft · 22/12/2016 00:17

I remember my white blonde haired blue eyed 3 year old walking to the corner shop pushing a pink buggy with a black girl doll in it. ( I couldn't give a shit about little ones having fun and pretending ) to be honest the little pink pram made him focus and walk in a straight line. He seen a kid from nursery on the way who said "haha you have a girls toy and it's a darky" from that day he wouldn't touch it. Even though I said that dads pushed prams too and the little boy didn't realise that skin colour made life more beautiful as life would be boring if we looked the same. I sometimes hate this world. Not for what we have become but for what we have always been

Italiangreyhound · 22/12/2016 00:44

WilliamHerschel shit that video with the woman talking about pre verbal kids. How very sad.

That women is very invested in this, isn't she.

I wonder if any of those kids,like the little boy who snapped the bottom of his onesie to make a 'dress', will come back to her 20 years later and ask why they are now sterile.

Atenco · 24/12/2016 19:22

That doctor is totally nuts. So preverbal children express their gender with onesies and a dislike of hair-clips!!!

ageingrunner · 24/12/2016 23:20

How does the dr think that babies know that hair clips and skirts are supposedly for girls??
I would have thought it's pretty obvious to anyone that this is NOT something that a baby could possibly know. And certainly not something that could be innate.

Atenco · 25/12/2016 23:45

ageingrunner I know, it is magical thinking. Just like the whole concept of pink and blue brains.

normabahia · 22/08/2018 16:14

The transgender movement is easy enough to understand. It proceeds on a number of falsehoods. First, that TG people do not have a psychological problem. They do. It is called total body dysmorphia (or gender identity disorder if you prefer).
However the second falsehood is worse, the gender identity falsehood, that seeks to obliterate natural male and female gender.
It is so absurd that, as far as I can see, no-one actually believes in the novel transgender-created concept of gender being in the head and not biological, except the government. I do not think that the transgender people themselves believe in it; they know they invented it in order to feel better about themselves (i.e. make trans look normal and ubiquitous). So we all know it is fictitious, probably even the government. Yet, for purely (or I should say impurely) political reasons they have bought into it. It is the same with the proposals (which have as yet got further in Scotland than here) to instruct young children in this pernicious creed, getting them to choose a gender: no-one with an ounce of sense, which means almost everyone , supports this abusive attack on our children: yet the government continues with it. What has caused them to lose their senses along with their integrity and to pursue a course so damaging to society generally, to women particularly and, most particularly to our children -- and all at the behest of a minute number of psychologically challenged activists? We need to create a mass revolt against it. They must be stopped before they do more, and perhaps irreparable, damage.

ivenoideawhatimdoing · 22/08/2018 16:33

My son isn’t of school age but I would not be delighted if they taught them at school that being anything other than a stereotype means they are a different gender.

Promoting equality is one thing, but it seems a lot of what we hear and read is that if a boy likes pink and dolls or a girl likes to climb trees and is blue then immediately they are ‘abnormal’.

Seemingly all the gender norms which seemed to be on the out are back in full frame.

Recently a colleague’s child had a no gender day where the boys had to wear pink and the girls had to wear blue... it was odd.

CuriousaboutSamphire · 22/08/2018 16:33

www.localgov.co.uk/Transgender-issues-to-be-taught-in-schools-/44416

It is part of changes being made to decades old sex education in schools. The government had a quick 'consultation' and there will be changes to how sex education will be taught. DSis has had her updated pack though and it does include trans/gender ID as something we should all be respectful of.

15 year olds will be given the right to overrule parental decisions, ie attend sex ed when parents say no!

There are a lot of changes happening.

Maybe OP was hoping we'd all leap into the fray and be HORRIFIED too!

DistanceCall · 22/08/2018 19:27

I'm not going to go into the ideological part of the debate.

However, it would seem very clear to me that, in order to get a series of medical procedure that will have a drastic, irreversible effect on your body and render you sterile, which is not medically required to protect a child's life or health, one would have to be of legal age.

FFS, women in their 20s are denied sterilisation, and yet it's OK if children undergo this sort of treatment?

genz · 23/08/2018 09:04

wow we loVE A BIASED ARTICLE !!1!1!2!1!

chill, i taught the classes in my school about gender identity and expression and everyone seemed to get it. what’s the issue with teaching children to be tolerant? ignorance breeds hatred and i’m sick to death of reading that another transgender teenager has committed suicide purely because the people around them don’t understand what they’re going through.