To be HORRIFIED that this might be taught in my daughters school

[NormaStanleyFletcher]

Have any of you come across this? Do you know if this, or other lessons have been presented to your primary (or secondary) age children?

www.transgendertrend.com/teaching-transgender-doctrine-in-schools-a-bizarre-educational-experiment/

I have managed to teacher for too many years without ever having to refer to the gender of a pupil. I may have mentioned "gender" but only with a word like "stereotyping" following straight behind. I'd be apprehensive about teaching about LGBT issues at the moment tbh. Which is quite a shame.

Thing is that however you identify doesn't impact on how others see you.

Creepy men do not ask for pronouns before creeping at the teenager that is the sex of their choice. For example.

This is where it all collapses and you get these increasingly aggressive instructions to try and completely ignore what is in front of your own eyes. And the nice people will try their best with the people that they meet, and the not nice people won't give a fuck.

I mean, if I went into work tomorrow and said that I was a transman and that I wanted to be called Dave, but that my appearance was "femme", but I was all man. Well, I could expect people to go along with it, but would the men suddenly start treating me exactly like one of the boys? Would I get a nice payrise Would women look askance if I said "you look nice today" all of a sudden, which is somewhat different coming from a man than a woman in the office?

Well no, of course not. People would do their best to do the right thing but they wouldn't actually believe that I was a man, would they. Not literally, in every way, male. Born a boy, raised a boy, a teenage boyhood etc etc.

So this is when you get problems, because it's not enough to say you will use the right names etc, nothing less than a literal acceptance that I was a man, and always had been, a belief in that totally and with no doubt, is acceptable.

And that, well, is just not reasonable. Or realistic.

Wasn't there a case in the news a few weeks back of a feminine presenting transman who was raped by a taxi driver?

Link...
www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/transgender-sex-assault-winnipeg-taxi-1.3603515

No biology/scientific nor medical textbooks have been re written.
This is a perfect example of post truth.
I am sure there are plenty of people who struggle with their sex for whatever reason however misinformation isn't going to help them.

"At first I was a little angry about the misgendering" !!!

"I think he just didn't care that I was a trans man, and I think maybe he doesn't believe in trans people, like transphobic. Because he still continued to call me a woman even though I had explicitly told him I was a male and I had been transitioning for a while now"

Yes I think so.

I think that the whole passing thing is a whole other area. Some people do pass really well. And of course have been using the toilets for what they pass as for years and that was all fine. If there was a "creepy man" in the toilets, you could still go and say "there's a creepy man in the toilets" and that would have been enough to get him ejected.

Now that is changing, and has changed in some areas already. So you can't challenge a creepy man in the toilets, because he might be a woman. So, that's that. The people who say "there are laws against assault" sound to me like the sort of people who haven't had much experience of creepy men. You can do loads of scary stuff before you step over the line into "call the police". Especially with women being trained to give everyone the benefit of the doubt.

The whole bogs thing isn't one of the things that really gets me going, but I understand why a lot of women feel vulnerable and don't like it. It just annoys me when people say "well it's already illegal to assault people" as if that is a genuine answer.

But queens that is what's happening, males being allowed to go for scholarships for women (presumably to help with the disadvantages they experience) males being put forward for women's awards, males demanding to use female changing rooms or be in womens prisons or refuges.

Aren't all children a little intrasex until puberty.

The idea of taking a scalpel to a healthy child before that sets in, is abhorrent and how anyone can talk about a biological "need" for hormone treatment (when they were only discovered a hundred years ago) is beyond me.

Sex isn't a spectrum, it's a see-saw, with most everyone, sitting one side or the other - let's all try to enjoy the ride, not matter how close (or far out ) from the centre we are.

Indrid - yes I know.

And - things that have been achieved by women are retroactively being wiped out by people who did them pre-transition.

Example: www.bustle.com/articles/183525-bridget-joness-baby-is-the-second-movie-trilogy-with-all-female-directors-but-thats-just-one

This article originally appeared saying it was the first trilogy to be directed by women, Someone complained that the matrix was the first - teh wachowski sisters. Who were the wachowski sisters when they actually made the films.

Here's another recent example:

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/17/british-army-gets-first-woman-on-frontline-as-transgender-soldie/

Note that this occurred quite soon after the decision to allow women in these roles was made, and any women wanting to do these roles had not had time to be selected & go through the training yet. Any of them who make it, will be the second. Unless any other transwomen come out before then.

Who were the wachowski brothers when they made teh films - sorry!

So their films made when they were men, pushes these women from being the first women to do it.

Which IMO takes the piss as the whole point is that women have been excluded, discriminated against, struggled etc so it is an achievement. But no, NO it isn't, look these ones did it first, and no they weren't men at the time, they were women, so off the podium you go, love.

Don't think this kind of nonsense would fly at my dc's faith school.

"I see what you're saying, but I disagree."
You might disagree, I might disagree, but that doesn't change the fact that this is the way they view it. My child-who-is-no-longer-a-child has used these exact words to me when trying to explain it - "Biology has no meaning to me."

Whatever. As I said, it amuses me. In part because of the disconnect between what "gender is a social construct" means to the people who say it and the people who hear it. It's a bit like giving somebody a bowl as a gift and watching them wear it as a hat. It's really not worth getting in an argument over, in my opinion.

Beyond the rate of sexual violence (and violence in general) towards trans people, both male and female, is higher than towards the general population. It's one of the arguments against forcing trans-women to use men's toilets - because it's very much not a safe place for them.

I foresee an awful lot of firsts for "women" aka whatever we are going to call them now, being usurped by proper women aka ones who used to have / still have penises.

Sports will be big on this, I think.
Science too probably.

That's my prediction.

Ninja how do they protect from unwanted pregnancy?

Ninja would you say that non passing trans men must use the mens toilets?

What about the safety of other gnc males in the gents?

It's like this prison thing. Why are we only concerned about transwomen getting raped in men's prisons? What about all of the other men at high risk of getting raped in men's prisons? Why does no-one care about them?
If transmen insist on going in a men's prison is that where they'll go? Pre-op ones? Ones who don't pass?

Sexually is fluid, gender can be fluid (and what fun we had with these in the less image obsessed 90's) not just in one person but over time. I had lesbian experiences, dh had homosexual ones, he has worn make up and dresses (as did most of the males at medical school). I have spent most of my adult life wearing gender neutral clothes most of time (trousers and a collared shirt or surgical scrubs at work, jeans, t-shirts and hoodies at the weekend). "Male" clothes or more practical and easy to "throw on", " female clothes" and make up are more fun. But sex biological sex is not fluid.

Manumission

Who do you mean by "education establishment"?

Teachers, Lecturers, Minister for education, Who do you expect to take the flak for saying/suggesting that this is wrong?

"Ninja how do they protect from unwanted pregnancy?"
The usual sorts of ways. I should specify that the quote about biology was specific the issue of gender identity, and had nothing to do with physical or medical issues.

"Ninja would you say that non passing trans men must use the mens toilets?"
Would I say? It's not my argument. I'm all in favour of providing a third, gender-neutral, option though.

Oh I see. That makes more sense! On the "biology is irrelevant" thing. So actually - it isn't at all.

Gender neutral all round would work for me as long as the men don't piss all over the place and they all have their own sinks etc. Not going to happen though is it! Space constraints, expense.

Ninja, it says in the link that they didn't believe the motivation was trans related

I didn't say "educational establishment" did I boney?

It's a faff to scroll all the way up on this thing but I believe I said "educational institutions" which is what I meant.

Teachers, Lecturers, Minister for education, Who do you expect to take the flak for saying/suggesting that this is wrong?

Now you've lost me entirely.

Who do you think has suggested it is wrong?

I had no idea about the wachowski's until now. Wow! Just shown my dp some pics - he's in shock!