To be HORRIFIED that this might be taught in my daughters school

[NormaStanleyFletcher]

Have any of you come across this? Do you know if this, or other lessons have been presented to your primary (or secondary) age children?

www.transgendertrend.com/teaching-transgender-doctrine-in-schools-a-bizarre-educational-experiment/

Agreeing with me by swearing at me and calling me a cow? Okay then

I feel that feminists are trying to tear down gender stereotypes whilst transactivists, also unhappy with their assigned stereotypes, are more focused on getting into the other box as a method of coping (which I have sympathy for) but I think the answer is not to put people in gender boxes in the first place

Yes I agree with this. It's like transactivists want to have the option to dress in clothes that society says are for the opposite sex, but they, for some reason, do t feel able to say they're a man who wants to wear a dress, they have to make up (imo) this fiction that they're in the wrong body and really a woman. It would be better for everyone if people just wore clothes and followed their interest without having to worry about having the piss took or being attached if they don't fit into very narrow roles.
I've always enjoyed wearing makeup and often thought it's a shame that men don't find it as easy to wear makeup if they want to, society is so restrictive and it must be hard for men and women who want to be different. A nasty combination of sexism and homophobia is keeping people in boxes.

Because a website called 'transgendertrend' isn't pushing an agenda at all.

Is there a point here around feminists usually being women and the vocal TAs usually being men?

That women seem to say "get rid of the boxes" and men say "I want to go in the other box".

Never thought about it before.

And not because blue brain pink brain but socialisation / position in society or similar.

have men up to this point not really seen any way out of their gender role, while women have for yonks been desperate to get out of theirs? It's easier to fight against something if you are obviously subordinate - what if you want to fight out of your place in the winning team?

The agenda transgendertrend is pushing is: you're perfectly fine as you are. You don't need hormones or surgery. Children should be allowed to dress as they please and follow their interests, regardless of which sex they are.
What's wrong with that?

Yes Queen. Can't help thinking there's sometimes a subordination fetish element with some transwomen 🤔

ageingrunner yes about the makeup but then again, look at the 70s and 80s, young men slathered with the stuff in some of the popular movements / music types / whatever you call it (tribes?).

You see US magazines and it's like no male has EVER worn makeup before OMG new revolutionary shocking. In the same year David Bowie died and there are pics of him with makeup on all over the place

the whole thing is very confused if you ask me.

What does makeup have do to with being female anyway? I mean apart from superficial / fashion / sex class stuff. We aren't born with our first mascara in our mitts.

Yes you're right Queen, we're going backwards. And it's not beneficial for women or men.

Very very confused!

I should say that the more vocal TAs who were male before they became trans. Not sure if that's right either.

I mean the loudest TAs ones seem to be ones who were born with penises.

I never realised before that the approach to discomfort with gender role therefore seems to differ between those born with vaginas and those born with penises.

Well until now - where we see that young people with vaginas are opting out of the class of people who are be-vagina-ed at an ever increasing rate. Who can blame them? You can't change society - so change yourself.

Time - " I do not want to derail the thread citing other literature regarding the occurance of DSD/intersex traits, but it really isn't as rare as SOME people perceive. Unfortunately there isn't much awareness."

Links would be good, because I'm aware of some trans activists trying to co-opt my medical history (PCOS - an endocrine imbalance suffered by women) and that of my cousin's DS (hypospadias - a minor birth defect of the male urethra) in order to artificially inflate the number of people who are intersex for propaganda purposes. So being clear what exactly we're talking about when you say intersex, and what the actual percentages in the population are would be helpful.

Hmm, its pretty tough trying to stay calm when you get accused of misogyny. I feel like I am speaking a different language.

I wish some people with actual trans experience, or people who identify as non binary (and YES I am completely aware gender is a construct in the first place) would come and talk on this thread cos there seems to be so many assumptions being made about 'them'.

Girls have always had less feminine female role models like George from Famous Five, Jo from Little Women

I'm pretty sure that if you read some TA posts you will find that both George and Jo were trans...

This is an excerpt from the mother of a teen who came out as trans. There is a piece from the child at the end too.

Here’s the thing – teenagers are dysphoric. Dysphoria is defined as ‘a state of unease or generalised dissatisfaction with life’ and that just about sums up being a teenager for a lot of kids. Many teenagers feel they aren’t in the right place, the right life, the right time. It is not such a huge leap, especially for a lesbian girl, to conclude that she is in the wrong body. Transkids call the name their parents gave them at birth their ‘deadname’. The appeal is clear. Society demands such impossible things from our youth. Our boychildren are expected to be tough, to ‘man up’, to scorn women yet acquire them, to value money and power above everything else. Is it any wonder if they shirk from what they are told is manhood? And if it is hard for them, it is so much worse for our girls. They are faced with endless images of airbrushed physical perfection in a society where women are told they can ‘have it all’ but are everywhere portrayed as constantly sexually available and intellectually and physically inferior. We are raising our girls in a society where women still earn nearly 20% less than men for the same work hours; where online porn is only a click away; where a third of young women age 18-24 report being sexually abused in childhood and only one in twenty reported rapes ends in a conviction. Is it really any wonder when young women want to cut off not just their hair but their breasts and fantasise about emerging, as if from a chrysalis, to join men in their position of power and privilege?

4thwavenow.com/2016/12/17/a-mums-voyage-through-transtopia-helps-her-daughter-desist/

That my child is transgender.

That's why I was allowed to sit in on one of the lessons at my child's school. In fact that's why they had the lessons in the first place. It came after some training some members of staff had.

The lessons are now part of the schools teaching and it has made the school a more inclusive place for all.

yes true itsallgoingtobefine

I'd forgotten about that..

Joan of Ark
Is another one.

I don't get how it's all to do with how you identify but it's fine for them to trans people who are dead and can't be asked.

arc :D

I think bowie has been claimed as trans as well.

thatcoldfeeling, yes. Mn members seem irrational on the trans issue.

I have to agree with queen's post of 15:30- saying that girls are unhappy and trans is an 'out'.

I said this before on a different trans thread.

I would have met the DSM5 criteria for Gender Incongruity, I spent most of my childhood-early teens identifying as a boy, even going as far as to try to mutilate my genitals. By late teens/early 20s I was happy in my body.

I was recently diagnosed with autism. Those feelings of 'not belonging' I had, it was autism. I was not happy, and my childish mind thought that maybe being a boy was the answer. It wasn't.

Had I been a child now, it is worrying that I could have been started on puberty blockers, and never 'grown up' to realise that I am a woman.

Joan of ark most likely had schizophrenia (misses the point)

Runner but some people, the minority, are not ok just as they are as far as they are concerned, they feel they need the hormones and surgery and I don't think it's helpful to dismiss that as 'your fine'. (Therapy, alot of, should ofcourse be first line treatment, but some still feel the need)

The other problem is that they aren't saying your fine as you are- they are saying it's fine to like 'male' things if you identify as male, it's fine to like 'female' things if you identify as female, and it's fine to like both if you identify as non binary. Which reinforces the gender roles in the first place.

The alternative, what I thought of as the norm when younger, was that females can like whatever and males can like whatever. No need to worry about self identfying as anything, just get on with life. But ofcourse sadly there are other ideas that drip down about stereotypes within the media and society. We could just be fighting for the idea that males can like whatever and females can like whatever, because that's so much simpler and doesn't reinforce gender stereotypes.

And I do think that for young people being "non binary" or one of the other 100s of genders + combinations with all the sexualities (demiromatic etc) is the equivalent of me dressing up all in black when I was young - it's a tribal thing.

Agree about it being a tribal thing, but goth men in make up weren't insisting they had a right to use the ladies toilets. felixonline.co.uk/news/6596/transphobic-incident-in-reynolds-bar/ Nor were they arguing for legal recognition of their 'identity, or insisting others referred to them using made up words (zie/xir/etc) as many 'non-binary' people are.

Yes I completely agree Indrid. It should be fine to like whatever, regardless of which sex someone is. Rigid enforcing of gender roles just increases the incidence of trans, imo.

Well said Indrid.

There are two sexes, plus intersex for those who are born biologically ambiguous. Gender is purely a social construct which backs up the traditional binary patriarchal values of 'femininity' and 'masculinity'. It is not possible to changes sex, and gender is a crock of s**t being paid far too much attention to.

I think my hope is that the vast a speedy expansion of who is "trans" will be such that in fairly short order pretty much everyone will be trans and it will all burn itself out, hopefully with a wider acceptance of non-conformity.

That it will be accepted that we need group words for "people with vaginas" and "people with penises" so that we can talk about sex based oppression - although I don't know what those words will be. That we need one word for each none of this "menstruating people" if it's periods and "gestating people" if it's pregnancy and "uterus bearers" if it's to do with certain types of reproductive health. Interestingly I've never heard any of these the other way - "penis havers" or "sperm emitters" etc - has anyone else? That's interesting in itself I think.

Anyway.

Also that our authorities have more sense than to say Oh OK you in the male prison, hands up who wants to go in with the women, off you go! And ditto for other situations where women are going to be vulnerable (and actually most men don't want to be mixed either). There have to be solutions that don't endanger anyone.

Plus stats - MRAs have a field day whenever a woman gets done for a sex / violent offence, we need to make sure the stats really reflect who is doing what and to who or we will not get the full picture.

Anyway. I'd be OK with being agender if I must choose. I'm not particularly attached to any of this stuff from a gender perspective. My doctor still needs to know I've got a cunt though, obviously.