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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Original poster

To think it's actually a lie when argue that suicide is always a selfish act, that others get hurt by it?

460 replies

ChristmasFuckOff · 19/12/2016 23:28

Firstly, MNHQ as you always comment on these threads - this isn't somebody making a post about being suicidal. I'm not. Dunno why not because I probably should be and maybe I will be later this week but right now...no.

I'm sick of all the stuff out there saying how if somebody commits suicide, there will be people devastated. That it's always selfish. Often people who are suicidal say they don't want to be a burden, is that not actually a reasonable argument?

I think a lot of people out there, with friends and family, can't seem to understand there are others out there who literally don't have good relationships. So it doesn't affect anyone else.

OP posts:
Madshiplollipop · 22/12/2016 10:57

So sorry to hear your experience , Beryl.

MissKG · 22/12/2016 11:04

Madship can you quote the bit in the OP you think is confrontational? Because no one else can see what you're talking about.

OP in my opinion has written a very emotive post, that I agree with, and is simply looking for discussion around it. So please be cleared on what you're referring to,

Sallystyle · 22/12/2016 11:12

I haven't read all of the thread, as it's a bit hard to stomach right now.

I have a beautiful, amazing husband who has a serious MH illness. I think the reason why he is still alive today is the fact that he is petrified of trying to kill himself and failing and ending up even worse. This is going to be hard to write... but if he had quick access to a gun at certain points of his life, I know he wouldn't be here.

He is in pain every day, emotional and mental pain. Every day tasks that we take for granted are hard for him. He fights every day and if you met him you wouldn't even know he was unwell. He is the kindest man ever, he is an amazing father and husband but unless you know him well you will never know the pain and mental torture he goes through.

Years of different meds, different help.. nothing really works.

If he was to kill himself, and I am well aware that one day he just might I would not think he was selfish. I hope with every ounce of my being that he never does, obviously, but if he does I would understand, because not many people could live with that pain for 30 years.

I did read this little nugget

Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem

30 years is not a temporary problem. Knowing you will feel that way until you die is not a temporary problem. He isn't always suicidal, but he always struggles, life is always going to be extremely tough for him, he will always have periods where he is worse and there is never a time where he has good mental health.

Madshiplollipop · 22/12/2016 11:13

"It is a lie to argue that suicide is always a selfish act and that people get hurt by it". And we have just seen a poster explain that they feel the person who committed suicide acted selfishly.
So I am saying it is confrontational to say people are lying if they say suicide is always a selfish act.
Others on here have discussed euthanasia which is a different debate.

Madshiplollipop · 22/12/2016 11:15

Why say "lie"? Why not "I feel differently and here is why".

helpimitchy · 22/12/2016 11:16

There is absolutely no way you could be to blame for his death though Beryl it was his choice to do what he did because he was unable to deal with his problems. He was manipulative and abusive.

CockacidalManiac · 22/12/2016 11:17

U2, I can empathise with that. I've felt very similar to your husband about the situation.

BerylMeeps · 22/12/2016 11:20

I do not deny his choice. I declare him selfish by his actions and how/what he did. The way it happened, the words he used, all made him selfish and unbelievably awful.

helpimitchy · 22/12/2016 11:21

Not euthanasia Mad, the context in which it was written about means that the act would be assisted suicide. People muddle the terms up. The same thing occurs with the term 'abortion'.

Madshiplollipop · 22/12/2016 11:22

Which is why euthanasia is a different debate.
What is the point of saying people who disagree with you are lying unless you want to pick a fight. And put it on AIBU.

helpimitchy · 22/12/2016 11:23

He was indeed very selfish Beryl. I hope you are managing to find some peace now Flowers

CockacidalManiac · 22/12/2016 11:23

Ok, I'll engage, Madship. The OP specified 'always' in the thread title. Suicide can be a selfish act, as can any act potentially. In Beryls case, this man was obviously abusive and using suicide as a method of punishment, coercion and control. People who suicide are not a homogeneous group; they do it for different reasons.
The important word again is always. This thread has explored the idea of suicide mostly from the perspective of people with severe mental illness; in this case, suicide is a choice taken for complex reasons. A lot of us are arguing that in this case, it's not selfish for all the reasons discussed during the thread.

helpimitchy · 22/12/2016 11:25

Are you trying to derail this thread Mad? Arguing semantics really isn't helpful or relevant.

BerylMeeps · 22/12/2016 11:25

It's taken many years and supportive family, friends and my husband to clear the marks off my soul. I'm fine and rarely think of him any more, thankfully

CockacidalManiac · 22/12/2016 11:25

I'd say that there's only one person being confrontational and looking for a fight on here currently Madfish.
It looks like it's you. You're like a dog with a bone.

CockacidalManiac · 22/12/2016 11:26

Madfish? Madship, obviously.

helpimitchy · 22/12/2016 11:28

That's good to hear Beryl.

CockacidalManiac · 22/12/2016 11:31

I'm glad you now feel like that, Beryl. He sounds awful.

bibbitybobbityyhat · 22/12/2016 11:32

I am sorry to read about your dh U2.

Is there any part of you that feels that he would be better off not suffering any more? Apologies for the clumsy way of putting it.

My brother suffers from severe depression and won't take drugs and is very scathing/cynical about talking therapies. We don't have a relationship any more and he has barely any friends (because he has withdrawn, not for lack of wanting a relationship on our parts).

I know we would all be extremely hurt and wounded if he decided not to carry on living, but I do sometimes wonder why he doesn't make that choice? Is it only the thought of the devastation he would cause that's keeping him going?

UnbornMortificado · 22/12/2016 11:34

Beryl he was abusive right to the end. I've heard of it used before. My DD's dad used to threaten it regularly. Eventually sent a photo of himself hanging to his own mother. It's a form of control.

I'm sorry you went through that.

Sallystyle · 22/12/2016 11:42

Is there any part of you that feels that he would be better off not suffering any more? Apologies for the clumsy way of putting it.

I am really glad you asked that question. I wanted to bring it up but wasn't sure if I should. There is a part of me who feels he would be better off not suffering, yes. I would completely understand if he ended it and a part of me would feel a sense of peace for him.

When three of my children's father died of cancer it was a horrendous time but at the same time he was at peace at last, no more pain. It's the same thing really isn't it?

I know that we keep my husband going. He has seen three of the children grieving for their dad and he knows they would grieve as equally for him. He also knows how devastated I would be. I don't know how long that will be enough though.

UnbornMortificado · 22/12/2016 11:54

U2 it was me that wrote that. I truly believe it's right in some cases. A lot of things that can tip people over the edge can be recovered from.

Im sorry if that upset you I realised after I wrote it that it wouldn't apply to everyone. My suicide attempt was after my son died I wouldn't class that as a temporary problem either but a temporary state of deep grief maybe.

I'm sorry about what your DH has been and is going through Flowers

He must be incredibly strong. I don't think I could be, I've never thought of myself as lucky but meds do work for me. Last year I was to be found hysterical as my medication was being changed and I didn't think I could cope with the three weeks for them to kick in.

That was three weeks not thirty years.

Sallystyle · 22/12/2016 12:10

Thank you for your kind words. And you are right, what you say is true in some cases.

I am so sorry for your loss Thanks

UnbornMortificado · 22/12/2016 12:24

There is a lot of it on this thread unfortunately but thank you. I really should of engaged my brain before writing that comment.

MH truly can be as horrible as any "physical" disease. This thread has been a real eye opener I don't think I've ever thought about it from the family and friends point of view properly until reading it.

LauraTheCucumber · 22/12/2016 14:18

U2 Flowers I am so sorry for what your DH is going through, and in awe of the strength of both of you.

In condemning those who do die as selfish, I think society often forgets how many years the suicidal person has suffered, how hard they have fought to stay alive, how much they have managed and survived Sad

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