To think it's actually a lie when argue that suicide is always a selfish act, that others get hurt by it?

[ChristmasFuckOff]

Firstly, MNHQ as you always comment on these threads - this isn't somebody making a post about being suicidal. I'm not. Dunno why not because I probably should be and maybe I will be later this week but right now...no.

I'm sick of all the stuff out there saying how if somebody commits suicide, there will be people devastated. That it's always selfish. Often people who are suicidal say they don't want to be a burden, is that not actually a reasonable argument?

I think a lot of people out there, with friends and family, can't seem to understand there are others out there who literally don't have good relationships. So it doesn't affect anyone else.

I think the "death by cancer" versus "death by depression" comparison needs more scrutiny. In the past year, I have had one friend die from each. The difference in how those friends were treated was staggering.

The friend with cancer received some excellent palliative care though a hospice and community services - she was given excellent pain relief, individually-tailored morale-boosting little treats and generally lots of gentle TLC. It's dreadful that she died so young, but at least she died comfortably, and surrounded by well-planned care.

The friend with so-called "untreatable depression" received nothing. In the final weeks, when friends and family alike all realised that her suicide was fast approaching, many of them made frantic and urgent calls to mental health crisis services - and all were told "there's nothing we can do - we can't stop her dying". But given that they couldn't (and I do think they were right to say that), why was there no palliative care available for Friend with Depression? She died alone, horribly alone.

If we are going to medicalise mental health to such an extent that we liken it to cancer (and obviously, there are scientific and ethical problems why this mightn't be workable - but that's another thread) then we need to set up hospices, palliative care services and other end-of-life resources for people with mental ill health.

And that is, of course, before we even get to the debate about euthanasia.

Op, get help. And just so we are clear, suicide is an act of cruelty against your family. If you have no family, someone has to find you and deal with you. Anyone on here able to do that and not be affected?
I have known someone who did this and the devastation that they left behind, the repercussions are still felt today.
I've had dark tough times and no doubt will have more (chronic debilitating incurable illness). I would never do this and hurt my family or leave a mess behind me for others to deal with.

Bdum telling the OP just to "get help" is neither kind nor helpful. As many, many people on this thread have testified, the alleged "help" often simply does not exist.

I know exactly how hard it is to get help.

BdumBdummer

What a horrible thing to say. Suicide is not selfish. There is no help for many.

And if you'd the thread, Bdum, you'd have seen that the OP came back more at peace with themselves.

And just so we are clear, suicide is an act of cruelty against your family

No it isn't. It's vastly more complex than that.

I didn't say it was selfish but I have seen the consequences.
I've known (and know ) catastrophic darkness because of my condition. I know very well how hard help is to find.

I have seen first-hand the consequences of suicide. I have suffered life-destroying depression and attempted suicide. You do not speak for me.

Oh ffs, there is no help. How many times do people have to say it?

When people say "get help" what they mean is "I feel uncomfortable with you talking about killing yourself, so I'm going to shut down the conversation"

I speak for me.

Spot on, helpimitchy

Exactly, help

*help

Succinctly put.

I don't think committing suicide could ever be classed as selfish.. someone has to of come to their very lowest point to do so.

Dh's best friend killed himself. He was a well respected medical professional and his family were very embarrassed by his depression and mental unit in patient stays. He received very little support from anyone and was under pressure to discharge from the unit. It was like nobody wanted to talk about it it was an embarrassing secret. Tbh, I wasn't surprised when dh told me what he'd done.

If anybody should have been able to access proper help it was him.

Mental illness is so acutely isolating it's agony. I think it's sometimes the isolation and loneliness which leads people to suicide. I hang out on discussion forums about this subject and all the people there repeat the same thing.......there is no help, there is no understanding, there is no alternative. They're fully aware that it's a huge taboo and that they simply can't talk about it.

Not talking about it and blaming the ill person just leads to more pain.

So much truth in that post.

And just so we are clear, suicide is an act of cruelty against your family.

Statements like this are so fucking unhelpful.

Yeah, too right they are Delete

Sadly a lot of the hospitals are to put it mildly inadequate.

I clicked on the thread despite myself. I have been actively suicidal. I am not now but do have ideation. At these times I have an internal dialogue
"you're useless and pointless"
"no you're not you're ok"
"everyone would be better off if I was dead - it would be painful at first, but in the end it will be better" "no it would be selfish, painful for others like the person who finds me".

In a sense it doesn't matter to me now (not suicidal/ideas. I just see from the outside how incredibly painful it is being suicidal However in another way I need to believe it now when I'm stable so I can hold onto it when I really need it.

If this does trigger something for me I'll be ringing the Samaritans. I agree that mental health services can be rubbish but I still try when I've really needed them, even when that was sitting weeping by the wall in A&E for two hours where it was the other patients who asked if I was ok - it kept me alive/without injuries from any attempt.

And just so we are clear, suicide is an act of cruelty against your family.

Yes dear it is , 'I need help! Please help me!', Ans - 'What about me?' Probably why it all ends in suicide.

A ridiculously selfish statement that completely unhelpful to the sufferer, note I say sufferer because the person contemplating suicide is in their own personal agony.

The same people who make this kind of statement are the same people who feel too embarrassed Or uncomfortable discussing what the issues are that are driving the sufferer to suicide.

The people left are always question themselves, could I have stopped it? And the pain!

Good thread, thanks especially to Korma and Cock.

I am not sure if I am allowed to say this but I guess they can always delete....

Is thinking about whether life is worth living -and concluding that it may not be - totally different from being suicidal? Or the same? Or do they overlap?

Fwiw, I have no mh issues and am very happy. But one of the blights on my life is knowing that I am unlikely to be able to control my own death.