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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

To think it's actually a lie when argue that suicide is always a selfish act, that others get hurt by it?

460 replies

ChristmasFuckOff · 19/12/2016 23:28

Firstly, MNHQ as you always comment on these threads - this isn't somebody making a post about being suicidal. I'm not. Dunno why not because I probably should be and maybe I will be later this week but right now...no.

I'm sick of all the stuff out there saying how if somebody commits suicide, there will be people devastated. That it's always selfish. Often people who are suicidal say they don't want to be a burden, is that not actually a reasonable argument?

I think a lot of people out there, with friends and family, can't seem to understand there are others out there who literally don't have good relationships. So it doesn't affect anyone else.

OP posts:
nellifurtardo · 21/12/2016 12:05

My mum tried to kill herself last year and it was devastating for her and everyone around her. She didn't think she could tell anyone about how she was feeling and felt that she was being a burden. She keeps saying sorry but I'm thankful she didn't succeed and so is she as it was just a cry for help and thankfully she is much better and feels able to get things of her chest. It's not a selfish act it's a mental health problem.

ChristmasPeace · 21/12/2016 12:10

Religion can be a very strong protective factor IME - because it is seen as a sin or the person fears going to hell

OP, I believed in God before I fell on hard times in life. I had understand that really well known bible verse; John 3:16 which says: "for God so loved the world that he gave his only son, so that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life."
What it didn't say was "whoever gives to charity", or "whoever goes to church on Sunday" or "whoever leads a good life", I realised that nice though those things might be, they are 'works' that can't save us. So I was trusting in God for my eternal life with him, but I wasn't trusting him for my every day problems.

Over the years I found myself divorced, and then diagnosed with multiple sclerosis, you know, that awful disease that makes people campaign to legalise euthanasia, and it robbed me of everything: my freedom and independence, my memory and concentration, my mobility, the career I loved (because I was too ill to work in any adapted capacity), and even my ability to pursue any hobbies because the neuro-fatigue was just too much. I could have been forgiven for thinking that, because MS is a degenerative neurological disease, I can't expect anything but further deterioration, and with that, further misery. I felt trapped in a body that had become the enemy, which is a really odd feeling!

I was so angry at God for letting that one happen to me! But one day I went back to a local church and the speaker was saying how that if you don't trust Gods love, then you won't trust his rule (in other words his will in your life; what he allows to happen). And I realise that sums up my entire life story! I was trusting God in terms of believing in him, but I wasn't trusting in God in terms of believing his promises for us on this before we die. God promises to bring comfort and peace, you where you would expect it to be impossible, he promises that he has a plan, and he promises that he can work everything out together for good to those that love him. We just can't always see the full picture and that's where faith comes in.

So even though my circumstances are screaming at me that my future is full of misery, pain and torment, I am trusting in God to have a plan and I'm looking to him for my value, not to myself or my fantastic career I once enjoyed.

I suppose I am telling you all of this because I had times when I felt things hopeless, and the last thing I ever wanted to be was a burden to my family or my dear children. It is easy to trick yourself into thinking about they'd be better off without you so they don't have to watch you deteriorate, change beyond recognition, or be cared for physically. But my thinking has changed and I honestly, quietly, put my faith in God for all of it.

To my surprise I've had some really good, unexpected change in my condition. After 7 years of deterioration, I am having small improvements. That's supposed to be pretty impossible if it's not the usual relapse-remitting cycle. What I'm saying is, you never know what's around the next corner. I found when I was bed-bound I could get online for very short bursts and encourage someone through their hard times, which I believe would have made a difference to them. Even though I have missed on my children's upbringing so much over the past 7 years, the could always crawl into my sick-bed for a weak smile and a cuddle from their Mum's arms. There is always some purpose. I hope you can find a new perspective on an old problem Flowers

CockacidalManiac · 21/12/2016 14:17

If my illness (or anyone else's for that matter) is down to some plan of a divine being, then they're a cruel bastard.

ChristmasPeace · 21/12/2016 16:59

We aren't promised a perfect life here in earth though. That's the life to come.

What God does promise is that he is in charge of it all, that he will help when we call out to him, that he will work it all together for good.

When I was angry at what he had allowed in my life, I wasn't trusting in his promises, I was thinking he had made a mistake (I wanted someone else's problems, not mine!) or that he had it in for me. I was distrusting his love.

Yet when I read of psalm 139 (really worth a read) it says how we can't escape anywhere from him, he knows when we sit , he knows when we lie down . He knows every word before it is even on our tongue. It says his thoughts toward us outnumber the grains of sand. I don't know if you've ever spent the day on a beach on holiday, but if you even try to count one single handful, it's pretty impossible. There's so much of the stuff! That's a lot of thinking towards a person if you don't have an interest in them or a deep love for them.

But of course for every person you find trusting in God and his will, you will find at least at least one other person who refuses to. I get that. I'm just telling my story. It's totally transformed my experience and nobody can deny that must be a good thing, considering the circumstances.

UnbornMortificado · 21/12/2016 17:02

Religion can be a very strong protective factor IME - because it is seen as a sin or the person fears going to hell

I'm catholic. I fully believed hell could be no worse then what I was going through.

UnbornMortificado · 21/12/2016 17:04

I can see it being a protective factor for others by the way it just wasn't for me. I did (and still do) believe in god.

CockacidalManiac · 21/12/2016 17:04

As usual, when there's people experiencing mental health problems, the predatory evangelical types gather.

CockacidalManiac · 21/12/2016 17:08

Yet when I read of psalm 139 (really worth a read) it says how we can't escape anywhere from him, he knows when we sit , he knows when we lie down.

He knows when we've been bad or good

UnbornMortificado · 21/12/2016 17:26

Cock I imagine faith can help some people through hard times.

I don't think the pp sounded predatory.

ChristmasPeace · 21/12/2016 18:32

Cock so it's ok to knock someone's way to see things differently, it it turns them from a path of despair and hopelessness, to real hope and even dare I say it, purpose and happiness despite the awful situation they find themselves in?

You need to go and take a good long hard look at yourself if you think that's ok to do.

RufusTheSpartacusReindeer · 21/12/2016 18:40

christmas

I agree that with cock (although not in the same way) that your post is very preachy, to me thats inappropriate

My mother had a very strong faith so i certainly wouldnt knock the help that faith can bring

Smile
BursarsFrogs · 21/12/2016 18:50

At times when I'm suicidal, I feel I'm being selfish by being alive. I genuinely feel I don't deserve the air I breathe, the space I occupy, let alone to be in people's lives.

I've thought long and hard how I could make a suicide as easy as possible to my nearest and dearest, as well as any other people. I might know in a way that there would be upset to various people, especially my parents and DH, but it really does feel like that upset would be more than offset by them getting to have a life afterwards without me - even if they don't right now realise what a great thing that would be. They would grieve and move on and go on to have a happier existence without me burdening them.

I'm not currently suicidal, but haven't RTFT just in case it's upsetting. Sorry.

CockacidalManiac · 21/12/2016 18:52

Cock so it's ok to knock someone's way to see things differently, it it turns them from a path of despair and hopelessness, to real hope and even dare I say it, purpose and happiness despite the awful situation they find themselves in?

I don't see how swapping one delusion for another is particularly helpful. You are preaching on a thread that contains posts by vulnerable people. That's pretty contemptible.

CockacidalManiac · 21/12/2016 18:56

What I need when I'm suicidal is properly funded, properly trained mental health intervention. Not an evangelist looking for an easy mark, introducing extra guilt from a Bronze Age belief system.
It's appalling how religions target vulnerable people, but I suppose they need to perpetuate themselves somehow.

ChristmasPeace · 21/12/2016 19:09

So... you continue to knock it. Well I'm sorry you feel comfortable doing that. You'd rather I stand on the news telling the world I want to kill myself for such an awful disease?

It beggars belief that you'd knock something like that. I find it quite upsetting actually.

UnbornMortificado · 21/12/2016 19:12

I think if someone's found something that does help them (whether it be counselling, meds, religion etc) it can be only natural to want to tell others incase it helps them.

Or that's how I read it.

I agree it's probably not the right thread to do that.

ChristmasPeace · 21/12/2016 19:13

I also said nothing to "add extra guilt" as you put it. Not a single thing. I only spoke of my hope and peace in a hopeless and peace loss situation.

I didn't expect to get knocked for that, wow. Just wow.

CockacidalManiac · 21/12/2016 19:13

I'd rather you didn't moralise in such a smug tone.

We aren't promised a perfect life here in earth though. That's the life to come.

I'd rather people got proper help in this life, thanks very much, rather than have to wait for some mythical afterlife.

UbiquityTree · 21/12/2016 19:13

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

CockacidalManiac · 21/12/2016 19:15

What happens to those suicidal because of their sexuality? What happens to them? What do you have to say to someone who is suicidal because they are gay, or trans?

ChristmasPeace · 21/12/2016 19:16

They are not. I can tell you.

I spoke of how my awful existence has been made easier in this life.

And I think ta entirely ok to post on a thread where people are discussing suicide and hopelessness. Especially as I have lost so much from the disease that is renowned for having people stand in front of the BBC news and talk of wanting to die.

ChristmasPeace · 21/12/2016 19:18

What a strange and homophobic thing to say cock. Of course I would say the same to anyone of any creed, colour, or sexual orientation. Sorrow and hopelessness is not a respect or of persons.

UnbornMortificado · 21/12/2016 19:23

I think this thread is very informative. Maybe though it's time to draw a line under the religious aspect.

I'm not the thread police by any means but I think this discussion could actually help someone struggling.

ChristmasPeace · 21/12/2016 19:26

I think it would be unwise for me to discuss this any further with you cock. It wasn't you I was talking to anyway, it was the OP. I wish you every good thing in life, but for my own self protection, I don't want to put myself in your line of fire any further.

CockacidalManiac · 21/12/2016 19:27

All I'll say is that I've seen how the religious prey on people who are unwell, I've seen it a lot and it makes me angry.
But with that, I'll say no more about it.