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AIBU?

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See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Original poster

To think it's actually a lie when argue that suicide is always a selfish act, that others get hurt by it?

460 replies

ChristmasFuckOff · 19/12/2016 23:28

Firstly, MNHQ as you always comment on these threads - this isn't somebody making a post about being suicidal. I'm not. Dunno why not because I probably should be and maybe I will be later this week but right now...no.

I'm sick of all the stuff out there saying how if somebody commits suicide, there will be people devastated. That it's always selfish. Often people who are suicidal say they don't want to be a burden, is that not actually a reasonable argument?

I think a lot of people out there, with friends and family, can't seem to understand there are others out there who literally don't have good relationships. So it doesn't affect anyone else.

OP posts:
MsHooliesCardigan · 21/12/2016 10:13

A colleague of mine had a patient who killed himself and my colleague and the patient's housing worker were the only people at the funeral. He was from Africa and we had no contact details for his family.

Elendon · 21/12/2016 10:21

I think suicide should never be seen as a selfish act, that much I agree on. After I witnessed the suicide, I went on and had a 20 year relationship and three children and am generally happy in life.

If someone close to me committed suicide, I would wonder how I failed that person, but why should I think that? Obviously I cannot make them better as I'm not trained to do such things, no more than I can help someone get better who is dying from cancer. As being said up thread, it is an act of those dying of mental illness.

SheSparkles · 21/12/2016 10:28

I'm not a police officer, but a cicilian dispatcher who very regularly speaks to people who say they're suicidal, by phone.

I think selfish is the last thing a person who commits suicide is. Generally when someone is truly suicidal, they truly believe the world, and the people in their life will be better off without them.

I'm in no way belittling the feelings of those left behind, but suicide is an act of desperation not selfishness.

ElfOnMyShelf · 21/12/2016 10:33

I attempted to commit suicide exactly 14 years ago today. I genuinely believed the world and everyone close to me would be better off without me in it. That actually, my death would be better for them.
I had life insurance to pay out
I had fallen out with family so they wouldn't have to worry about me.
The pets would be with better owners

It's amazing how you can twist things to justify them. In my head it was the complete opposite of a selfish act and would release them from the burden of me

EmmaWoodlouse · 21/12/2016 10:37

There is someone in my family at the moment who, if they chose to commit suicide, I would understand. I'd miss them just as much as if they died by any other means, and I'd be sad for them that their long and interesting life had ended up so limited that they felt the need to end it, but I'd understand why they felt there was no better option in the exact circumstances.

Elendon · 21/12/2016 10:43

A person dying from any illness will have repercussions on those close to them. Mental health and suicide should be no different.

This excludes those who take out others in so called 'suicide terrorism' or 'suicide domestic violence'.

Choccobiccy · 21/12/2016 10:46

YANBU.

My brother took his life 7 weeks ago and although I am devestated, stunned and deeply depressed. I understand that he was suffering from an insidious illness, depression. At that moment when he decided to end things, he was not thinking rationally.

I would never see it as a selfish act no matter how hurt I am by his actions.

PeteSwotatoes · 21/12/2016 10:47

I find it distasteful that some are arguing that you shouldn't commit suicide because those who find you might be traumatised.

A person is dead through mental illness.

Every horrific event has an impact but it's not fair at all to blame the sick.

FruitCider · 21/12/2016 10:55

*Fruit, a woman I know took her life three and a half months ago. She was young (28) and it was very, very sad and I feel sorry that she died so young and so sadly.

But I miss her in a fleeting, passing way.

It certainly isn't (and shouldn't!) be enough to keep her alive if she didn't want to be. As for the idea of not committing suicide because someone in the local shop might miss me popping in for milk and eggs - come on, now *

It's completing suicide, not committing. Suicide is not a crime.

Anyway, that's not the point I was trying to make. You said that some people literally have no-one that cares about them. I disagreed. My disagreement was not that it should be enough to keep someone alive. My disagreement was with you insisting that people live completely insular lives.

JAPAB · 21/12/2016 10:57

I suppose I might understand why it could be considered selfish if done over "temporary" problems. The sorts of things that will be gotten over in time. Unless if they are very severe of course.

But otherwise, people should not feel obligated to stay alive in a bad state to avoid upsetting others. They should probably find some way to make the people aware or understand the whys. Best not to leave those left behind with no real clue of why it happened.

BillSykesDog · 21/12/2016 11:04

No it is true. I don't think that is true at all about someone missing them. I think someone might feel 'Oh that's sad' but they won't really miss them as they have little impact on their lives. Councils still do plenty of funerals that nobody goes to. Not necessarily suicide but people who died alone. And there was that woman in Wood Green who was dead for years and nobody noticed.

midsummerwoods · 21/12/2016 11:08

But I think people do, Fruit

The truth is that life goes on very quickly even for people you did love and care about. For those you don't, they are barely given a passing thought. For years I was very insular and I know I would not have been missed. I don't say that to sound dramatic: it's just how it is!

Elendon · 21/12/2016 11:14

The truth is that life goes on very quickly even for people you did love and care about.

It most certainly doesn't. I have a very good friend whose twin sister died at 40. It took her years to get over it, in fact she has admitted she never will fully recover from the loss. Her sister died peacefully in her sleep.

midsummerwoods · 21/12/2016 11:17

Elendon, immediate family (spouse, siblings, possibly parents, certainly children) will have an element of never getting over it, but you do learn to live with it and continue forwards in a way. Acceptance, I suppose you might say.

But for friendships and acquaintances, yes, life moves on very quickly.

Gollygeewhizztits · 21/12/2016 11:25

I think it's selfish as in, you are thinking of yourself. Not necessarily because of the effect it will have on others. Maybe selfish has too many negative connotations, but I don't mean it in a bad way here. I don't know what a better word would be to describe what I mean.

Elendon · 21/12/2016 11:27

I have an illness that I will die from. My life will be elongated through surgical treatment only. But the surgeries are brutal. I have decided, after much soul searching, not to seek any further treatment (though hopefully I will get the pain relief when the end does come). It's my decision. I'm done with surgical interventions. I have lived with this knowledge for 27 years. Not bad. When my time comes, it comes. It has been, in all, a wonderful life.

midsummerwoods · 21/12/2016 11:27

The point is we all behave selfishly.

I have a car. I am adding to the traffic on the roads. That's selfish. I'm not thinking of other people in a traffic jam partly caused by me.

I didn't think of someone else when I took the last chocolate orange from the supermarket yesterday.

If I wanted to end my life, I wouldn't be thinking of stranger when they found my body either.

midsummerwoods · 21/12/2016 11:28

Elendon Flowers

Elendon · 21/12/2016 11:36

My only concern is the pain relief. I've known people whose loved ones have died due to my condition, and the response always is, you wouldn't treat your pet like that. That is my fear. I'd rather die on an operating theatre, but my absolute hell would be to wake up from the anaesthetic.

We don't do death very well. Do we?

Elendon · 21/12/2016 11:41

Having said all that, I have not lived with the constant horrible thoughts going through my head. That to me is a step too far. You can recover from brutal operations and enjoy life, but to wake up each morning to the awful thoughts that life isn't worth living, constantly plaguing you, is to me something that we all feel uncomfortable with. Selfish? Absolutely not! Selfish is owning 2 thirds of the worlds wealth whilst watching others suffer through famine and wars.

darumafan · 21/12/2016 11:42

mrshooliescardigan
The quote by Libby Purves struck a chord with me, my son stayed as long as he could. We have copies of his conversations with his psychiatric team, he told them that he had stayed as long as he had for his brother.

James died as a result of a horrible, lifelong condition. It wasn't life limiting in the same way as cancer but it did definitely limit his life. He couldn't accept a lifetime of drugs and the limits that his illness was placing on him.

He didn't want to be a burden, he was frightened and tired. He wasn't selfish, he was the exact opposite. He cared so much about the people he loved that he chose to leave.

Suicide isn't selfish, it's the final act of a desperate person. Someone whose pain is too much to bear.

SheSparkles · 21/12/2016 11:44

When someone has committed suicide, it would be interesting to know if mental illness/depression is ever recorded as a cause of death

MalcolmFucker · 21/12/2016 11:48

I arrived at the local train station a couple of minutes after someone threw themselves in front of a relatively slow moving train.

The person who jumped must have been so desperate, I can't imagine.

As I left I saw the train driver through the fence, curled up on the floor shaking, being comforted by the station staff.

Just terrible all round

Lilmisskittykat · 21/12/2016 11:57

As an ex cop, even if a person don't have a soul they think will care and let's says they don't for the sake of an argument.

There are people affected someone unwittingly get involved.. step in front of car/train etc then they have to live with trauma and guilt... anything else someone has to discover the body /clean up the mess (for want of a better word)

So I think it's unreasonable to proposed the action will affect no one

user1471545174 · 21/12/2016 12:05

IMO it is selfish, but I have no ideation so don't understand it and can only focus on the devastation it causes others, sometimes for the remainder of their lives. Their only lives.

I really wish the factors that drive it were treated differently, though. People need to know that depression is common and that not finding meaning in life is also common. These are ordinary aspects of the human condition.

OP mentions in her second post that she's looking forward to what she's going to eat. That is meaning. Harmless pleasure is good. When you stop looking for meaning, it all gets better.