Breaking : possible terror attack in Berlin

[MagicMary1]

twitter.com/ap/status/810931083944534016

This is so sad.

"The main reason I voted brexit is because I'm convinced the EU will break up in the next ten twenty years."

So your role model in life are rats who are the first to abandon ship?

1Horatio this man should been deported to Tunisia after being imprisoned in Italy. Then both Italian and German markets would been safer.

Of course.

What I mean... these attacks are very easy to manage (if you got the mid set). My neighbour could hijack my care tomorrow, drive to the Christmas market etc. That's obviously not exactly likely. But it's theoretically possible.

Somebody from the refugee centre a few villages over could do this. A radicalised teen going to school with my half brother.
They wouldn't need to cross boarders to do so... that's imo the problem.

Yes your neighbour could hijack your car...but she is not driven by hatred to want to kill strangers.

Somewhere along the line people who have fetched up in Europe as "refugees" have got it into their minds to murder the people they look to for help. How, Why, where does it comle from?

I'm not denying it's an issue.

I'm just expressing my doubt that boarder patrols will be a genuine improvement.

And I do think the money used for that could probably be invested in things that would increase safety more efficiently.

"And I do think the money used for that could probably be invested in things that would increase safety more efficiently."

This.

To the person who thinks that leaving the EU will save the UK from the fallout? Yeah, right.

If the EU goes, even outside, so do we.

if the EU goes, even outside, so do we.
Is that some kind of threat

No its just the truth. The economic shock of an EU and eurozone collapse would be massive, far bigger than 2008, with less to counter it. I'd expect a 1930's depression redux.

Going back to the OP, I think we have three issues.
The problems of law enforcement in Schengen and FoM when faced with huge migration numbers from outside the Union.
The problems of integrating very large numbers of people from a very different culture into a liberal democratic soceity based on respect for human rights.
The fact that somewhere in Islam there appeares to be a call or inspiration for people to commit murder.

These are all very difficult issues separately. But they are very much linked.

Have the 'this doesn't add up/pull the other one" crowd come back yet with their version of what happened yet?

And now we learn that the NGOs, the charities, may be in cahoots with the people smugglers.

"Non-governmental organisations working in the Mediterranean have also found themselves embroiled in a smuggling row. In a confidential dossier, border agency Frontex claimed there were 'clear indications' that human traffickers were in cahoots with NGOs.

"In a secret report written last month, and seen by the Financial Times, Frontex said migrants had been given 'clear indications before departure on the precise direction to be followed in order to reach the NGOs' boats'.

"Frontex explicitly accused charities of colluding with smugglers in another report last week, which said: 'First reported case where the criminal networks were smuggling migrants directly on an NGO vessel.' Frontex also said that people rescued by NGO vessels were uncooperative – with some claiming 'they were warned [by NGOs] not to co-operate with Italian law enforcement or Frontex'."

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4038954/Trafficker-filmed-offering-smuggle-migrants-Britain-Lidl-lorries-5-000-gangs-Paris-Jungle-closed.html

www.ft.com/content/3e6b6450-c1f7-11e6-9bca-2b93a6856354

The original FT article is far less jingoistic and offers quotes from the NGOs themselves.

Clutch your pearls..

"The fact that somewhere in Islam there appeares to be a call or inspiration for people to commit murder. "

Could we say the same about Catholicism? You know the IRA and ETA were Catholics?

I think that is a fairly sweeping statement based on prejudice. A recent Pew Research Study places the number of Muslims worldwide to be around 1.6 billion (or 23% of the world's population). So doing some basic math, we get that about .006625% of the Muslim population are "extremist".

So yeah, utter load of rubbish.

While I don't agree that Islam inspires people to murder we do absolutely need to try and understand more what is the pull towards radical Islam not just those that are just fighting and committing terrorist attacks but those supporting it. Is it just about our involvement in the ME, is the spread of more conservative Islam supporting the rejection of western values that add fuel to the fire.

It is not the same as ETA and the IRA they are separatist groups they do not kill in the name of Catholicism and the bible

I think more than anything else its about our involvement in the ME, people are very, very angry that the Western powers have caused this mess. Whatever you think about it, they have. Intervention in the ME for the benefit of Western Powers has been going on for generations, allowing dictators to oppress different population groups.

I'd encourage everyone to watch the Adam Curtis documentary Hypernormalisation, to get an understanding of the mess we have caused, and why.

Darth, the ETA and the IRA were never about Catholicism. They are about separatism and nationalism and in the case of the IRA civil rights. They had clear aims which in the case of the IRA allowed us to negotiate and create a settlement. They never killed people simply for not being Catholic. And the Catholic Church openly censured and discommunicated them.

And Islam has, going right back to Muhammad who was fond of mass beheadings of those who refused to follow him, been a religion spread through means of violence and coercion.

"been a religion spread through means of violence and coercion"

And Christianity wasn't at the same time?

The ETA and IRA comparison was made because someone made a point about Islam causing violence, and I used that to make a point, I know exactly what they stood for, but I don't think many Islamic extremists really kill for Islam, they kill for terrority battles just the same as ETA and the IRA. As stated above it is a very small % of the population are extremist anyway.

I don't know.

there is always a poster who insists that Islam is uniquely bloodthirsty, that violence is its USP.

Maybe it is, I have no idea.

Assuming that Islam is like no other religion in that no other religion has ever killed unbelievers in its name or used coercion (!)

what then?

"Assuming that Islam is like no other religion in that no other religion has ever killed unbelievers in its name or used coercion"

Well the Catholic Church certainly did this, as did the protestant faith in this country.

It certainly is a large part of the issue

I think a lot has to do with poverty, lack of opportunities these two combined is perfect conditions for manipulating young people into more radical Islam they become part of something they have a purpose for some that will just personal to them others will go and fight in Syria and some it leads to terrorists attaks

It happens over and over again in every society in some way or another this on a high scale and a fight against the west but that where it is complicated as most that are fighting would love the freedoms the west allows their people that their own governments and religious leaders and taken away from them

I don't think there is one reasoning and one answer but we have turned a blind eye for too long

DarthPlagueis I am certainly well aware of that

I just don't think playing worst religion ever top trumps is helpful. As I said, so what if Islam were the most bloody ever in terms if doctrine. It isn't in practice, certainly not by even a significant minority. So what then?

I agree, I think in the "West" we have been complicit in the oppression of people for our own expediency. We have allowed the leaders of nations to become vastly wealthy along with their cronies and let the inequality grow vastly. This is because this has been a convenient way for us to operate.

What is happening now is the culmination of our not allowing the middle east to govern itself, from performing a coup d'etat on Mohammed Mossadegh in the 1950s, to allowing the Al Saud Family ultimate power in Saudi because of their control of oil (who are the main supporters of Wahabism), to arming Saddam, supporting Assad, making a monster, then friend, then monster again out of Gaddafi.

There is a reason there are millions of highly angry young men who are easy to turn into terrorists, and it isn't the fault of Islam.

Some of the fighting might be about territory but the call they feel they feel they have the instruction they claim to take and how their attacks are justified (by their supporters) is from the Koran

If they are drawn to act in such a way becuase they feel they have a religious calling or it's about their own power we shall never know

We all know that religious writings have violence woven into them along with fear love and peace that isn't the issue what is the issue is what is tbe pull towards such violence in such a scale against the west for some young Muslims

"Islam is so far behind which is what makes it so difficult for muslim people to live among non-muslims"

Well that's a fairly racist statement, a sweeping generalisation based on your own prejudice that is in fact, highly incorrect. There are plenty of muslim communities that live alongside other communities just fine. Here in London, in Newcastle, in Glasgow, all over the world. What a load of crap

Your point about Muslim men seeing a woman as a tart is again a sweeping statement so utterly flawed.

See, what you will do now is accuse me of "shouting down" the debate, when actually you have made a racist statement, so its not shouting down, its critiquing the flaws in your argument.