Breaking : possible terror attack in Berlin

[MagicMary1]

twitter.com/ap/status/810931083944534016

This is so sad.

you are welcome :)

So the man was a known criminal, had his asylum bid rejected (I think) and was under surveillance for possible links to terrorism yet was allowed to freely wander the streets in Germany. Then finally appeared two countries away. Not good.

Glad he's been found at least, though it would have been even better if they'd been able to take him alive.

So the man was a known criminal, had his asylum bid rejected (I think) and was under surveillance for possible links to terrorism yet was allowed to freely wander the streets in Germany. Then finally appeared two countries away. Not good.

Actually, reading the Italian press I think it is going to hit more hot buttons than "just"that.

At the moment reports are that

he came on a migrant boat to Lampedusa in 2011.

Knocked two years off his age and claimed to be an undocumented, unaccompanied minor.

Was convicted of being a principle in the burning down of a migrant holding centre.

Celebrated the Paris attacks in prison.

Served sentence.

We failed to deport him.

He used what was happening in Germany to try and claim asylum there.

It failed, but he didn't leave, or nobody made him leave. And he was flagged as a potential radical.

He committed mass murder.

Came back to Italy.

There's a lot in there that is going to leave a lot of people feeling TPTB have not laid a foundation that allows for reasonable checks and balances in terms of security.

The way I see the boarder issue is it boils down to how much the people it affects want open boarders? Open boarder bring both problems and advantages. They provide hassle free movement across the block. Which is very useful. On the other hand they provide numerous criminal, immigration and terrorism prevention problems. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to work that one out. It's for people of those nations to decide if the security implications of their open borders if worth it to enjoy the benifits of their open borders? They should not not be bullied by terrorism to change the way of life they enjoy.

Yes that is what I am reading... Also he was going to be deported back to Tunisia after being realsed from prison in 2015 but they did not recognise his nationality so he headed to Germany.
He was known for his radical traits .
I am also glad that more controls are being called for by people living and working in the Schengen.

So really what is at fault here is the systems to remove migrants who are here illegally, far more responsible than Schengen. If you can state that this attack wouldn't have happened without Schengen, then it is even less unlikely that it would have happened if the Italian's had deported him, or the Germans.

Oh dear.

What we are looking at is a chaotic situation with no proper information sharing across boarders - hell, even within the same country, a security expert pointed out that even within Germany the federal states all police differently. Look at Belgium, its very similar.

There are no proper checks at any migrant entry points to the EU, they don't know who people are, where they have come from, and they have all entered the EU in their millions.

Darth - are you expecting a shit hot response from already under funded over worked security people to pin down and deport all these people? Really? How?

The Italians have had to deal with thousands and thousands of immigrants with very little European funding or practical help. Greece and Turkey as well.
No Darth the problem is the systems controlling and checking all those arriving legally or illegally in the countries and being able to monitor the movements as and when needed.

I don't, but I don't expect putting border controls in to catch many terrorists either.

The point that I'm making is that this is now being used out of political expediency to make statements regarding Schengen when there are many other issues that have contributed to this situation, and Schengen is not the main fault.

Agree Schengen isn't the biggest problem. It's undeniable that the asylum route has provided a cover for terrorists and a properly funded Europe wide system needs to be put in place so they can't just disappear into the system.

The idea that you let people roam about the EU at will is the idea of schengen - its been in action here too - casually waiving in those with EU passports and yet even here we have not had a joining up of dots with the countries to make sure each person entering is safe.

I would say its political expediency to keep defending it.

I am surprised after the horrific attack at the Bataclan, the first thoughts of the EU leaders were to keep open borders. Even after a Shaky Hollande said " Our borders are closed" at that moment the attackers were casually passing over the borders back to Belgium. Big statement, meant nothing.

But then this terrorist had his asylum denied, and should have been deported by the Italians.

How many real refugees are going to die or suffer because of the actions of a few? Its not that we have to accept that there will be terrorism but blaming actions that have helped many people find safety and peace is also wrong.

There are things we can learn from this, but not helping refugees and border controls are not the way forward.

blue with the volume of people your looking at its impossible. Greece has been begging for help - in money and in terms of experts to help process people, they have not received it.

If everyone had been vetted properly and criminals like Berlin man not allowed through everyone would have felt safer and not threatened by true genuine refugees.

darth maybe you have not followed any events - but Germany is supposed to be deporting people back to places like Morocco and Tunisia but from this Berlin attacker we can clearly see how problematic that is in practice. After all they have a million people to sift through, many with burned papers - even burned finger tips.

Yes your right - how does this help the true genuine people fleeing war and slaughter? How!

Meanwhile we have this kind of scummy shit - just waiting for an exhausted and sad and shattered young man:

www.google.co.uk/amp/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/38419969?client=safari

no one has mentioned not helping refugees and this is the tragedy of it all.

I have followed events, and yes I agree the task is very difficult. I still don't think that introducing border controls will stop terrorism and that Schengen was not the main issue at fault. Italy's failure to deport him, Germany's failure to deport him, his ability to avoid arrest when they went to do so, all of this adds up.

Last year when the migrant routes were working and borders even more relaxed there was an enourmous crisis. Far many more would be dead now than have died in this atrocity, people did their best in difficult circumstances.

As I said I think placing the blame on Schengen is just political expediency, both from Le Pen and the Brexit crowd here.

There are things we can learn from this, but not helping refugees and border controls are not the way forward.

It's not an all or nothing thing. You can help refugees but have strict border control. I live in a country that does this.

So really what is at fault here is the systems to remove migrants who are here illegally, far more responsible

Northern Europe spent more than ten years sat on its arse, yelling "racist Italian bastards letting migrants drown" (cos Lampedusa's position on a map makes it a walk in the park to police and perform rescue in national waters donchaknow) ignoring all calls to come together and provide a unified response to what was an impossible load for a few, not well off nations, to cope with alone.

A system didn't fail. The whole system failed. We were supposed to work together as a European unit for the good of the European unit when the shit hit the fan. But that didn't happen. No point whining about stretched beyond useful individual systems now. Europe started cooking this goose over a decade ago.

And it is going stink as it rots.

If the Schengen Agreement is the only casualty of ever increasing grassroots security concerns, as opposed to the union as a whole, it'll be a bleeding miracle.

online And it is going stink as it rots. It already does.

people did their best in difficult circumstances

You do remember if your following all this - the perp of the Battaclan used migrant routes to flit between France, Belgium and Syria where he was battle hardened?

Experts have said the system is madness and its doeskin take much to follow that logic to understand why. The man who drove the lorry and killed all those innocent people should never ever have been allowed access onto continental Eruope in the first place. Not a single person who is at risk of harming others should be able to set foot on EU soil. The governments have a duty to protect their citizens.

It seems to be - FOM at literally any cost. Any sacrifice to human life.

I do wonder if this could have been prevented by border controls. I have a lot of doubts, tbh.

The guy was in Italy (and presumably radicalised there when he was in jail). If he couldn't have gone to Germany... what would have stopped him from doing the same in Italy? He could have hijacked a car and ran into an Italian market. Pretty much every village has one (and they certainly can't afford the necessary security to protect those efficiently).

When I was at the station today in Switzerland there were several railway police men on every platform and they were quite obviously watching people closely (it was rushhour). I'm not sure why they were there and how they were armed (either stunguns or real ones. I didn't feel like checking out their equipment too closely was the best idea...).

It's probably a false sense of security. But the fact that something is being done is kind of reassuring.

how do we know he wasnt planning to create another atrocity in Italy before he was almost accidently caught

We don't... do we?

The main reason I voted brexit is because I'm convinced the EU will break up in the next ten twenty years. Better to be ahead of the game. But don't want to derail thread. Germany can't hold this together forever I fear.