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Breaking : possible terror attack in Berlin

774 replies

MagicMary1 · 19/12/2016 19:41

twitter.com/ap/status/810931083944534016

This is so sad.

OP posts:
Tanith · 23/12/2016 12:36

it's the fact that the handful of random people stopped by the Milan police's "routine patrol" just happened to contain the most wanted man in Europe. Pull the other one, it's got bells on.

It does happen. Both Reginald Christie and The Yorkshire Ripper, Peter Sutcliffe, were caught by being randomly stopped

GingerHollyandIvy · 23/12/2016 12:41

They were quite happy to abandon him to fleeing the scene with no support.

Perhaps he was expected to die for the cause, and someone who bailed to save his skin was considered a coward and not worth helping? Because he didn't make the ultimate sacrifice for their cause?

It's hard to say, really.

0nline · 23/12/2016 12:52

However they got him but apparently on a routine spot check, not proper checks, why was he heading to Milan? Rome - christian cradle of Christ?

He wasn't in Milan the city. He was at Sesto S.G. station, Milan province. Just outside the city. He must have travelled from Milan to Sesto. To go to Rome you'd stay in the city centre and catch an inter city train.

We left Sesto when DS was 3. Post 9/11 it was being called the AQ HQ of Milan, and Milan (province) the AQ HQ of Europe. Accurate or not, it made things a lot more tense than it used to be.

We decided to move for various reasons, but certainly the increased police presence, the increased road blocks and stops for ID were part of it. Final straw was when DS and DH were playing in our courtyard and vans of black clad special police arrived, dragging all the men ( Muslim) from the " not exactly legal" hostel next door. It kind of killed off what had remained of our original love for the place, a sort of village-ish feel, slap bang next to the city.

He may have been using Sesto as a stepping stone to somewhere else, but it is also possible that he was going to ground there, or had contacts locally who would shelter him.

Limer · 23/12/2016 13:39

It does happen. Both Reginald Christie and The Yorkshire Ripper, Peter Sutcliffe, were caught by being randomly stopped

Not hundreds of miles away, in a different country, within a day.

Rosa · 23/12/2016 13:42

If the Borders were closed again and checks imposed at every exit then he wouldn't have gone from Germany into France and then into Italy.. FGS . Stuff the freedom of movement crap put safety first .

Gingernaut · 23/12/2016 13:46

He arrived in Italy via France which is still supposed to be on high alert after the Bastille Day truck attack in Nice.

Security is just a joke.

DarthPlagueis · 23/12/2016 13:50

"Stuff the freedom of movement crap put safety first ."

Yes because terrorists will be foiled by border checks. Oh wait we had those in the 70s and they managed it then, all over Europe.

user1479647272 · 23/12/2016 13:52

A backlash would be sad for any INNOCENT migrants..

Rosa · 23/12/2016 13:58

Yes because terrorists will be foiled by border checks. Oh wait we had those in the 70s and they managed it then, all over Europe.

But in the 70s there were no electronic passports , no computers so no fast way of checking who is on the bad list, no fingerprint tracking. Heck they have that to get into Disneyworld so I guess they could manage it at the borders Xmas Hmm

BillSykesDog · 23/12/2016 14:00

Apparently he was stopped because he was alone in a station with no trains running at 3am and pulled a gun when questioned on what he was doing. If he'd just said he was waiting for the first train they'd probably have let him go.

DarthPlagueis · 23/12/2016 14:02

Of course they could, but it doesn't mean that terrorists won't find a way around it, and then we'd have imposed things that are massively expensive and have huge impacts on the lives of hundreds of millions, to no point at all.

Blaming freedom of movement for this is inaccurate.

0nline · 23/12/2016 14:03

it's the fact that the handful of random people stopped by the Milan police's "routine patrol" just happened to contain the most wanted man in Europe. Pull the other one, it's got bells on.

The probability of him getting picked out of the crowd at Centrale, or Cadorna stations in Milan city centre.. fairly low. And he probably did travel via one of the big train stations in the city and successfully avoided detection.

But he was stopped at Sesto, a town in the province of Milan, not the city of Milan. Which doesn't tend to get explained in the English speaking press.

At this time of year, with a higher terror alert, in a place with something of a reputation, there are more and bigger stops for ID sweeps at stations and other places. And they do racially profile.

Having lived where he was shot, I am neither Hmm that he got picked out of the crowd for checking by the police. Nor am I particularly surprised that he was initially apprehended via a stop and check rather than inter European police intelligence and operations.

The point of stop and checks is not to inconvience law abiding people. It is fishing expedition for those who don't have ID , or are wanted in connection with something. They do them cos they haul in a reasonable number of "not exactly law abiding" bodies for the cost/effort involved. Sometimes they stumble across somebody wanted for something big. It's not the first time an ID sweep has ended in gunfire.

0nline · 23/12/2016 14:11

Apparently he was stopped because he was alone in a station with no trains running at 3am and pulled a gun when questioned on what he was doing. If he'd just said he was waiting for the first train they'd probably have let him go.

I've just seen that reported here too.

If he had been unable to produce ID when asked he might have been let go, but he certainly couldn't have banked on that.

Which might explain why he went for the gun rather than risk being taken into custody.

BillSykesDog · 23/12/2016 14:12

There was no crowd. It was 3am. He was the only person there. Hence he was suspicious apparently.

WidowWadman · 23/12/2016 14:12

Those who want to give up freedom for security will deserve up with neither. I can't see how or why these events should be a reason to abandon Schengen. In the same way as these events shouldn't stop us from going to Christmas markets.
Incidentally I'll be travelling to Oberhausen today, which was in the news today because of a foiled plot. I refuse to be scared.

BillSykesDog · 23/12/2016 14:13

X post

1horatio · 23/12/2016 14:27

The Australian police has also foiled a bomb plot, haven't they?

Rosa · 23/12/2016 14:29

Blaming freedom of movement for this is inaccurate.

I am not ... but it doesn't help . Security measures are in place at airports for a reason . IMO installing some of the same measures at the borders for the same reasons is not a bad idea. ( I cannot see the difference in intentionally blowing up an aircraft with 150 people on board or driving a truck intentionally into a Christmas market ) .

Rosa · 23/12/2016 14:31

BTW I live in a Schengen area .......

DarthPlagueis · 23/12/2016 14:32

Security measures at an Airport are much easier and less costly than putting biometric passport scanners on each of the borders within the Schengen zone.

It also won't stop terrorism, and is exactly what the terrorists want.

Rosa · 23/12/2016 14:33

But the fingerprint scanners cost less.. Plus biometric passport scanners won't work for all teh migrants arriving in who don't have biometric.

DarthPlagueis · 23/12/2016 14:35

They are terrorists, they'll find a way round that too, at the same time you are having an impact on the lives of hundreds of millions.

Rosa · 23/12/2016 14:40

Inconvenience a million people - save 50 or even saving 1 life surely is better ?

Of course they will find other ways and means thats what terroists do .

However thats one bastard terrorist dead so one less....

Itisnoteasybeingdifferent · 23/12/2016 14:46

Where does the rhetoric of hatred come from?
Who is inspiring people to kill
Who is financing them?

What is about the ideology that motivates killing instead of peace?

DarthPlagueis · 23/12/2016 14:48

"Inconvenience a million people - save 50 or even saving 1 life surely is better ? "

But it won't because as you said they will find other ways and means. So it isn't a case, its actually a post hoc fallacy.

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