Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

...to feel depressed that only 7% of UK identify as Feminist?

999 replies

DioneTheDiabolist · 18/12/2016 18:30

www.fawcettsociety.org.uk/2016/01/we-are-a-nation-of-hidden-feminists/

7% of the population and just 9% of women in this country identify as feminist. I'm not saying that everyone should call themselves feminist, I care more about what people do, rather than the label they assign themselves. But I am Sad that the number is so low.

Given that most people believe in sexual equality, why do so many people not feel comfortable to call themselves feminist? And what (if anything) can we do about it?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
girlwiththeflaxenhair · 23/12/2016 20:37

speak

What nuance am i missing, when a gap in educational attainment is pointed out - you respond by saying that it doesn't actually count because what counts is how many people do STEM and they are mostly men. Do you think the gap matters or not ?

BoneyBackJefferson · 23/12/2016 20:37

amispartacus

Yes - but there's loads of other similar reports out there. Still, if you don't want to believe there's anything putting girls off doing certain subjects, that's entirely up to you. You are only 1 person on the internet - the people who are concerned and who can make the difference are the ones who make the decisions and influence policies.

You are also 1 person on the internet, and I have never said that there isn't an issue.

But you could also link to reports that go into greater depth over the issue. (You brought them up, I'm not going to look, its your argument)

The fact is that the issue of girls in STEM, is being tackled in schools. It is also being tackled at FE, HE and industrial levels.

Its a shame that the same can't be said for all pupils.

SpeakNoWords

I suspect that the initial issue is from the child's formative years.
As the way that we bring up children changes, more pupils male and female go into different areas.

Unfortunately one of the biggest areas will be males in the caring profession, Whether nannies, primary school or nursery teachers and that is due to the perception that there must be something wrong with them if they want to do that sort of work with young or vulnerable children.

jojo2916 · 23/12/2016 20:39

I agree Canada moose men and women are so different and that's something to be celebrated IMO men are (on average) physically stronger and women are (usually not always) more nurturing, so what? It's a good thing not bad

amispartacus · 23/12/2016 20:42

The fact is that the issue of girls in STEM, is being tackled in schools. It is also being tackled at FE, HE and industrial levels

Yes, I know - this thread is about feminism, why there's a need for it and issues around it. I am aware it's being tackled. But not solved yet

Its a shame that the same can't be said for all pupils - yes, but slightly irrelevant to a thread on feminism?

RufusTheSpartacusReindeer · 23/12/2016 20:46

THE ISSUE OF BOYS NOT DOING ENGLISH IS BEING ADDRESSED AT PRIMARY SCHOOL LEVEL

AND THAT OF GIRLS DOING STEM

I KNOW I AM YELLING

girlwiththeflaxenhair · 23/12/2016 20:47

speak

The only detail you have provided is in an attempt to play down the educational attainment gap and play up the gap in STEM. To complain about this is to "derail" the thread. Typical.

BoneyBackJefferson · 23/12/2016 21:10

amispartacus

Its a shame that the same can't be said for all pupils - yes, but slightly irrelevant to a thread on feminism?

Yet, Feminism (on this thread) is purported to be about equality

SpeakNoWords · 23/12/2016 21:14

Wrong again. And you seem to be mixing me up with ami. I haven't said anything about your derailing the thread.

Breaking down stereotypes about what subjects and careers are suitable for boys or girls will help all children. As will examining any unconscious bias in how things are presented to young children.

I've repeatedly agreed that the imbalance at uni level needs investigating.

amispartacus · 23/12/2016 21:17

Yet, Feminism (on this thread) is purported to be about equality

With a main focus on issues affecting women and girls. That's why it's called feminism

And has been pointed out, if you believe in equality, you are a feminist by definition.

Feminism has its focus on women and girls. That does not mean boys and men aren't important. It's just that feminism focuses on girls and women. (IMO).

A feminist will believe that boys and men should be free to do what they want without being 'bound by expectations of their sex'. It's just that it's not up to feminists to focus on boys and men as well.

SpeakNoWords · 23/12/2016 21:19

boney do you think that feminism should look at issues with boys as a focus, or a priority over other issues? Or is it more that feminism should not look at any UK based issues, as there are no issues here any more?

Under the heading of equalism, how do I address and prioritise issues to do with girls and women without being told to focus on boys and men's issues first?

RufusTheSpartacusReindeer · 23/12/2016 21:20

Once subjects linked to medicine and education are discounted, the disparity in the total number of male and female higher education students drops from around 281,000 to just 34,000.

I will post this here....again

BoneyBackJefferson · 23/12/2016 21:23

Ami and Speakno*

I don't think that feminism should hold mean and boys as a priority over women's issues, But I think that it should stop pretending that that its priority is equality for all.

SpeakNoWords · 23/12/2016 21:27

But do you think that feminism looks to ensure that boys and men are discriminated against and face inequality?

I don't think anyone would think that feminisms priority would be boys and men, but to extend that to think that this means that feminism seeks to discriminate against men and disadvantage them is wrong. So feminism is not fighting against equality, it is fighting to achieve it for women and girls. That doesn't mean a negative outcome for boys and men. A more equal society is better for all of us, surely?

girlwiththeflaxenhair · 23/12/2016 21:30

Rufus

Are medicine and education not important or something ? I ask again - do you think there is a gap in educational attainment or not ? Does it not matter because STEM ?

Speak

Apologies I did get you mixed up. Do you think that the gap in education is a read herring then ? That the real issue in education and higherr education is STEM and this should be our focus ? Do you think that there is more effort trying to get girls into STEM than boys into Teaching or Nursing ? Why is this ? The vast majority of primary teachers are now female, is it coincidence that girls now fare so much better than boys ?

DeviTheGaelet · 23/12/2016 21:37

Rufus Wine
Trolls or ignorant, you decide......

Missswatch · 23/12/2016 21:41

Speak. Western feminism is for dominance if anything

Try this example. Post-divorce a woman can withhold access to the child but still gain child support with no punishment. Some 'patriachy' eh?

RufusTheSpartacusReindeer · 23/12/2016 21:49

I posted ages ago

With part of a bbc article (which i didnt link to i will admit) and the bbc website also goes into more detail about some of the factors

I do not know if there is a gap in educational attainment....it does appear to be that way but its incredibly simplistic to put it down to just one reason

Why arent boys doing well?

As i have said before boys lack of reading and writing is being addressed at primary school level

No one answered my question about male and female teachers...maybe more male teachers would encourage some boys

RufusTheSpartacusReindeer · 23/12/2016 21:50

devi

I am beginning to wonder i will be honest Wine

SpeakNoWords · 23/12/2016 21:52

So can a man, Mist. Do you think children should be pay per view?

DeviTheGaelet · 23/12/2016 21:54

Problem is, if any feminists put forward an explanation we'll either be subjected to testicles of objectivity aka "I don't believe that is true because of all my worldly experience" or told we don't care. Classic derail.
Its post fact bollocks. If people won't consider evidence and won't present any of their own, we are debating on opinions and that is a hiding to nothing.

girlwiththeflaxenhair · 23/12/2016 21:55

I do not know if there is a gap in educational attainment....it does appear to be that way but its incredibly simplistic to put it down to just one reason

You mean like how you have put it down to "patriarchy" ? I give up, your arguments are without depth and monotonous and yet you accuse everyone who disagrees with you as an ignorant troll.

BoneyBackJefferson · 23/12/2016 21:56

SpeakNoWords

The promotion for equality for all is egalitarianism. Something that was termed 'wanky' or similar on here.

I think that women, men, boys and girls benefit from feminism. But feminism is something that claims to be equality for all, when in reality it falls short.

amispartacus · 23/12/2016 21:58

I give up, your arguments are without depth and monotonous and yet you accuse everyone who disagrees with you as an ignorant troll

I suspect that rufus is not overly concerned about your opinion of her arguments. Having seen Rufus on many MN threads, I value her opinion highly.

DeviTheGaelet · 23/12/2016 21:58

Post-divorce a woman can withhold access to the child but still gain child support with no punishment
If she can show her ex H is an abusive shit who is a danger to the child, yes. Which is how it should be TBH. Otherwise father's have a right to access. And as has been covered numerous times, if men were more involved in their child's upbringing then they'd be far more likely to get custody or a shared arrangement. Not sure why I or anyone else should care about abusive shits?

RufusTheSpartacusReindeer · 23/12/2016 21:58

When the fuck did i put it down to patriarchy????

Come on when????

Answer....

I havent