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AIBU?

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Original poster

...to feel depressed that only 7% of UK identify as Feminist?

999 replies

DioneTheDiabolist · 18/12/2016 18:30

www.fawcettsociety.org.uk/2016/01/we-are-a-nation-of-hidden-feminists/

7% of the population and just 9% of women in this country identify as feminist. I'm not saying that everyone should call themselves feminist, I care more about what people do, rather than the label they assign themselves. But I am Sad that the number is so low.

Given that most people believe in sexual equality, why do so many people not feel comfortable to call themselves feminist? And what (if anything) can we do about it?

OP posts:
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5
girlwiththeflaxenhair · 23/12/2016 20:04

I also think it is interesting that despite the claims that "feminism" will help both boys and girls, what's clear is that actually you have no interest in getting more boys to do english, you don't personally value those courses as much as STEM (despite not actually doing them yourself). So it follows that boys WOULD NOT benefit from getting more women into STEM right ?

amispartacus · 23/12/2016 20:06

Yes it is, but it should also be pointed out that the report is from 10 schools

Yes - but there's loads of other similar reports out there. Still, if you don't want to believe there's anything putting girls off doing certain subjects, that's entirely up to you. You are only 1 person on the internet - the people who are concerned and who can make the difference are the ones who make the decisions and influence policies.

SpeakNoWords · 23/12/2016 20:10

"Why do you think boys like smashing stuff up and breaking stuff more than girls do ?" Do they? Is that a known thing?

girlwiththeflaxenhair · 23/12/2016 20:11

ami

Can I ask you again - why the determination and conviction that STEM needs women, but not that other industries need men ?

RufusTheSpartacusReindeer · 23/12/2016 20:11

you have no interest in getting more boys to do english, you don't personally value those courses as much as STEM (despite not actually doing them yourself)

Is that the royal you? Or just ami

RufusTheSpartacusReindeer · 23/12/2016 20:12

speak

I dont think it is

I have two boys and neither of them do that. Although one did love his swords and guns....and sticks

SpeakNoWords · 23/12/2016 20:13

Does it matter if boys don't benefit from more women in STEM, as long as they don't also lose out? Although I would argue it's better for our future economy to get more girls and women into STEM, which would benefit us all.

girlwiththeflaxenhair · 23/12/2016 20:14

speak

yeah - anecdotally I see quite a difference between the way young boys and girls place - particularly in the level of violence the boys mete out to each other. From a very young age, I think this is well known actually.

amispartacus · 23/12/2016 20:16

Can I ask you again - why the determination and conviction that STEM needs women, but not that other industries need men

You can only focus on certain things. I am lucky because I have the opportunity to get children into STEM through what I do now. So that's my area of interest and focus. It's an area I know a lot about and one that I can encourage people into and encourage people (especially girls) to get into.

girlwiththeflaxenhair · 23/12/2016 20:16

Does it matter if boys don't benefit from more women in STEM

This was a discussion about why people don't call themselves feminists. We went down a route which explored the massive gap in educational attainment. You have basically spent the whole time arguing that the gap doesn't matter because STEM. So all these women getting better marks and going to university wont matter because there are more men programmers.

Is that not about it ?

amispartacus · 23/12/2016 20:17

anecdotally I see quite a difference between the way young boys and girls place - particularly in the level of violence the boys mete out to each other

I suppose you think that's all innate as well? Are boys and men predisposed to violence?

SpeakNoWords · 23/12/2016 20:17

Do you mean "play" rather than "place"?

CanadaMoose91 · 23/12/2016 20:18

I am not a feminist. I believe that all people should have equal rights, but I do not support the movement where women are the same as men. Women are naturally more nurturing and men are physically stronger (obviously there can be exceptions). I do not wish to be compared to a man because I am not a man. We should have the same rights, but not the same guidance.

girlwiththeflaxenhair · 23/12/2016 20:19

Yes i meant play of course. You are engaging in "whataboutery" as you would call it.

"Girls get much better grades and are 35% more likely to go to uni, perhaps there is a problem with education ?"

Teacher & feminists :

"What about STEM ? The girls are studying pointless stuff."

SpeakNoWords · 23/12/2016 20:22

Whataboutery??! I was just not sure I'd read your typo correctly, and was trying to make sure I'd understood what you were saying. But hey, whatever.

amispartacus · 23/12/2016 20:23

Girls get much better grades and are 35% more likely to go to uni, perhaps there is a problem with education

You never did respond to the fact that that headline statistic is far more complicated once you analyse it.

You can keep repeating it but it falls apart once you study it properly.

RufusTheSpartacusReindeer · 23/12/2016 20:24

The conversion of the old polytechnics to universities in the 1990s brought a huge swathe of female students into the university fold.
And as Mr Hillman remarks: "Skilled careers traditionally chosen by women, such as nursing and teaching, did not demand full degrees in the past."

When this changed, the number of women in higher education increased dramatically," he adds.

Once subjects linked to medicine and education are discounted, the disparity in the total number of male and female higher education students drops from around 281,000 to just 34,000.

I WILL JUST LEAVE THIS HERE

RufusTheSpartacusReindeer · 23/12/2016 20:25

Epic bold fail

girlwiththeflaxenhair · 23/12/2016 20:28

Supposing you don't believe the numbers at uni then. What about the numbers passing A levels - you can't argue with that one surely ? This is the only place i've known where a gap in attainment between girls and boys is not acknowledged. It's even more surprising coming from someone who is apparently a teacher.

ami

So is you position that the headline numbers are not important, there is no gap and actually we still need to help girls more than boys !?

girlwiththeflaxenhair · 23/12/2016 20:29

And - why do you think it's a good idea to belittle the choices girls are making by saying they should be picking the ones the boys are doing ?

girlwiththeflaxenhair · 23/12/2016 20:30

speak

So my summation of your take on the education gap is wrong then ?

SpeakNoWords · 23/12/2016 20:34

Yes your summary is wrong, it is overly simplistic and ignores the detail that various people have tried to discuss with you.

jojo2916 · 23/12/2016 20:34

What Nataliejah said

SpeakNoWords · 23/12/2016 20:35

"why do you think it's a good idea to belittle the choices girls are making by saying they should be picking the ones the boys are doing ?" As far as I can see, no one has said or implied this.

amispartacus · 23/12/2016 20:36

And - why do you think it's a good idea to belittle the choices girls are making by saying they should be picking the ones the boys are doing

TBH - I am not going to take part in your continued derailing of the thread.

It is depressing that few people identify as feminists. There is still a lot of sexism about and a lot of issues that affect women - both in the UK and abroad.

I do think that the aims of feminism is misunderstood - and it's a broad church. I do think that the media representation of feminism doesn't help - but the BTL comments and the reaction to women who speak out certainly shows why feminism is needed.