To lol at the feminism threads....

[Hannah4banana]

Seriously are people constantly looking out for a way to be offended first world problems!

What on earth happened on MN last night?!

I don't lol at the feminism threads. I learn from them. I am angered by them. I am
saddened by them. I am empowered by them.

I am a feminist (and Spartacus) and very happy to be so.

Amazing how the goady fuckers come out late at night on a weekend isnt it
Anyone would think there wasnt much moderation about them

No big deal in pink and blue baby clothes?
Massive deal I'd say!
I am angry on behalf of my toddler girl whenever I am in the shops and am forced to buy her clothes that have been designated for boys. Why? Because the girls clothes tell the little girls in the world that they can be fairies in pink, mummy's little princess, cute etc?
Well I don't want her to be "just" that. So she gets the "little mountain explorer" tops , the dinosaurs, the cars and trains because she loves looking at them in real life.

No big deal I guess you'd say? I can shop in the boys sectjon if I want....
Yes I can....but what damn hope have we got for equality between the sexes, about wage equality about self damn worth of our little girls... if that's how they are "expected" to be dressed? If that's how society is "expected" to perceive them?

Well no she does have the mountains explorer tops and she does look damn cute with her little pigtails wearing it and her jeans. ... but I guess I have to keep buying boys because girls aren't allowed to explore mountains really

I'd say pass the wine but it's only 7am....and my DH who respects my worth,by the way.. is up with our DD so I can sleep. Bevause we are EQUAL!!! OP what did you expect when you posted that?

I hope you actually expected what you got because it pains me to think that you're so naive to think this wouldn't happen.

The problem with 'feminism' as on the boards here is that it was unrecognisable to my late mother, an ardent feminist.

When people call themselves 'equalists' (I am in that camp) to distinguish themselves from 'feminists', it shows how far some feminists have moved from their original goals.

There are many interesting discussions to be had to create a fair and equal society for all. However the feminist board here starts with a set of assumptions, so no discussion is possible. For instance:

How much of gendered behaviour is condition and how much is innate. No one knows the answer to this but the FWR board will point you to one popular book claiming it is all conditioned. Apparently research on the difference between the male and female brain is now discouraged, even in the interests of better medical outcomes.

Is the 'pay gap' now a matter of choice (successful women choosing to stay at home) and historical sexism (people in their 60s clearly suffered sexism during their careers) or is it still an ongoing problem. Given women outward men up until mid 40s, the answer is certainly not clear.

I think most of us want an equal society for our children but going from what clearly was a patriarchy to some form of newspeak, claiming to favour equality but assuming woman=good, man=bad is not the solution.

Outearn men until mid 30s...sorry for typo

We are all different. Most of us are feminists on here which just means you want equality for men and women and fairness at home.

Some posters don't understand the significance of what might feel like a minor issue and of course certainly some people see a slight or problem where there isn't one but you only have to read the mumsnet boards and the issues women cope with to see the feminism boards are some of the most important on here.

I don't think feminism has lost its role. It is vital. Also it is good we talk about it even on threads like this where someone is asking what it is about or doesn't like other threads on it. It all adds to the debate.

Women over 40 who have never had a child are more likely to earn less than men in the same situation so I don't think we have won any gender pay battle by any means as even if you strip out the children issue there is still some discrimination against women in the UK, never mind in all those communities around me where girls from abroad serve their brothers and marry young moving in to their parents in law's house to serve them etc etc. There are battles all around us to ensure fairness for women and men.

Other websites are available
HTH

www.derailingfordummies.com/derail-using-education/

My teenage son is a feminist. He gets it. He gets that feminism benefits men and why; he gets that men use language to silence feminists; he gets that some women have internalised misogynistic language and are unable to critically evaluate what is going on; he gets that the small stuff feeds into the bigger picture and, being 17 and only just seeing all of this for the first time, he is outraged by a lot of it

2 years ago he came home from school and said that the kids at all been talking about how a woman "had to accept at least 50% responsibility" for being raped. He said he knew it didn't sound right, but he couldn't explain to them why because at that point his head was also filled with the misogynistic narratives of but if she is drunk/wearing a short skirt/has been flirting... Anyway, we had a chat about it, I pointed him towards a few things online, and the next thing I knew, he was reading around feminism in general and challenging sexist narratives and language and educating as he goes.

I do think it's slightly concerning that a 17 year old boy has more insight into this than some adult women, but there you go. But there is hope for the future.

Listen, I'm a college lecturer, and I'm 29. I'm ambitious. I want a professorship in the foreseeable future. I know I'm talented in my area (not a brag - I'm hopeless at lots of other things), and I work very hard. From the middle of my PhD, it's been quietly made known to me that should I choose to have children, the chances of that happening are slim to none. I had a long, enlightening conversation with an eminent male professor in my field on the processes of this. You could say 'yeah, but if you take maternity, you're choosing to take that time away from your career' and blah blah blah. Which is true. But the point is, men can have both. They can have the family and the professorship, if they're good enough. Women choose. I've chosen my career, but if I could have had both, I would have.

It is now parental leave and could be taken by your husband/partner instead of you.

Here are some things I haven't experienced:

• FGM
• Christmas in Lapland
• Sex with a woman
• PTSD
• Being murdered by my husband

Therefore they don't exist.

Suspect this is a troll so it doesn't matter but to all the women out there who say they aren't feminists (usually to curry favour with men funnily enough), I suggest you educate yourselves. Frankly if you do I don't see how you can not be a feminist.

Oh and just to give you an example of why "gendered" clothing actually does matter, we recently received a gift for our 10mo son of two baby gros.

The first said "Daddy is my superhero"

The second said "Mummy is my personal chef"

I kid you not

I was the only female at one point with a locker room for 15 to myself. I can honestly say ive never experienced any sexism or judgment about my gender. Maybe I'm lucky but there many females in the same position. I actually prefer working with men!

Did the men never ask you to swap shifts with them so they could have Xmas Day at home with the kids then?

Is this thread your way of working through your annoyance at that issue?

larry There is still the necessity of a break to have the baby, the physical labour of pregnancy and childbirth, breastfeeding should I choose to do that, and besides which - if I were to have a baby, I would want to take some time to experience motherhood. I do see men in my field take paternity leave - for a few weeks, then they come back and pick up where they left off, more or less. Women who have babies are gone for a year, and by the time they come back, they're scrabbling to catch up with developments in the field plus a heavy teaching regimen plus all the other stuff we do on a day to day basis. It's not just law, it's culture. Off the top of my head, I've just thought of 6 male professors with children. Women - 1, and she received her professorship shortly before retirement, more as a nominal honour than a genuine career progression.

I love,

But that is choice. As you say, you would like to take a break to experience motherhood. There are women (the author of 'lean in' for one) who take hardly any break for a baby.

Personally I think that a few months out should be allowed in any career, but equally those who choose to take a total of years out cannot expect parity with those who do not.

I was raped as a teenager, I didn't report it because I was scared no one would believe me, or I'd be told it was my fault. THAT is why we need feminism.

Builders and lorry drivers think it's okay to lear at young girls, shouting crude things, "show us your tits" while they walk down the street making us feel unsafe. THAT is why we need feminism.

Telling young girls that you shouldn't wear shirt skirts, or drink to much because men are unable to control themselves around those things. THAT is why we need feminism.

Because young girls are told by their fathers or grandfathers "you can't do that, that's a mans job" THAT is why we need feminism.

Because some men still think it isn't illegal or immoral to beat your wife. Because she's YOUR wife. THAT is why we need feminism.

But the point is, men can have both. They can have the family and the professorship, if they're good enough.

When you say have both, what do you mean? Can the man have a good professorship and have the family - and do part time hours, leave for the school run, take days off when the child is sick, times off for appointments?

What does 'having it all' mean?

Lol at the feminism boards because it's 'totes hilare' right?

In a dismal year that's seen a sexual predator elected to be one of the worlds most powerful men, a misogynistic, scrotum faced weasel has become part of the women's equalities committee and a convicted rapist had his sentence reversed somewhat based on the victim's sexual past I'd say we need feminism more than ever.

I bloody hope you're not actually a woman. Your views are just too depressing.

I agree with what larry says about feminism in general and about the boards. I'm an ardent feminist/egalitarian and always will be, but I wouldn't go near the feminism boards again. There seems to be a queen bee clique who object to any ideas outside their prescribed criteria. Anyone else 's seems to be unwelcome. Rather self defeating to the cause.

'Scrotum faced'. Well there you go, more than equal. Imagine a man referring to a female politician using similar language. Post deleted immediately, and rightly so.

Also to the poster saying the wage gap is in high end professions.

I worked for Tesco until very recently. Our contracts were not given to us until we asked, and we when received our one, yes one male worker was on about 8p more than the women for the same damn job.

Only 8p I here you say, but we're still expected to work the same hours and do all the same stuff just paid less because we have a vagina!

But you keep thinking that the problem doesn't exists!

First world problem? I suggest you educate yourself before posting your offensive shit.