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AIBU?

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To lol at the feminism threads....

999 replies

Hannah4banana · 18/12/2016 00:58

Seriously are people constantly looking out for a way to be offended Hmm first world problems!

OP posts:
MyPeriodFeatures · 19/12/2016 10:12

amispartacus. Our experiences as human beings happen within the context of wider society and the structures and culture we exist in.

If someone's individual experience leads them to believe that there is no role for feminism or to think feminists are misplacing their energy and sometimes anger, do you know what they are? Privileged .... and stupid.

Stupid because they fail to acknowledge studies which gather evidence and have an understanding of the mechanisms of structural oppression (which you clearly dont) and believe that their truth is THE truth. Solipsism anyone?

amispartacus · 19/12/2016 10:21

Our experiences as human beings happen within the context of wider society and the structures and culture we exist in

It's also easy for someone to look at someone else and say "well they did it so it must be ok, no issues there"

It's hard to experience what someone else does. As Atticus said:

First of all," he said, "if you can learn a simple trick, Scout, you'll get along a lot better with all kinds of folks. You never really understand a person until you consider things from his point of view […] until you climb into his skin and walk around in it

When people who do suffer from discrimination and do experience barriers tell you there's issues, it's good to listen. Because you aren't in their skin. You see a different thing.

PosiePaRumPaPaPumParker · 19/12/2016 10:23

I've met women who have "made it" within their limited scope of success and therefore have very little idea about what happens in the rest of society.

ShoesieQ · 19/12/2016 10:29

As I think this will be the last page of this thread I want to thank Hannah for starting it.Sure the original qu was as goady as fuck,but she does seem to have taken a lot of what's been said against her on board.And though some of the poster have made me so Angry many many more have been bang on the money.

amispartacus · 19/12/2016 10:33

shoesi

Well, there's at least 2 more feminist threads on AIBU now.

Sparklingbrook · 19/12/2016 10:34

Yes another one has just popped up. Confused

amispartacus · 19/12/2016 10:49

It's like a London bus. Or Christmas Grin

Sparklingbrook · 19/12/2016 10:52

There's a topic somewhere....

sparkesx · 19/12/2016 10:54

I do. I stay away from them. I'm all for equality for both men and women.

It must be difficult to get through life with everything annoying you.

I'm with you OP Grin

SarcasmMode · 19/12/2016 10:55

OP like liberalism there is varying levels of feminism.

I think only extreme feminists worry about the colour of a card. Basic feminism is about equality.

Same pay, same opportunities etc.

If you are a working woman you have benefited from feminism.

amispartacus · 19/12/2016 11:03

t must be difficult to get through life with everything annoying you

Yeah. Those poor groups who get annoyed by discrimination and lack of equality of opportunity probably do find it difficult to get through life Hmm

BeyondIBringYouGoodTidings · 19/12/2016 11:09

I'm thinking of starting a "show me your feminist Christmas tree". Or maybe "is it okay to let builders use my toilet if they say they identify as feminists"?

BeyondIBringYouGoodTidings · 19/12/2016 11:13

Atheism was a good example giving on the other thread. Dawkins is an arsehole, but would you stop calling yourself atheist because of that?
(However I guess if you are not a feminist you may disagree that Dawkins is an arsehole! Grin )

EBearhug · 19/12/2016 11:15

The older boss dating his younger secretary I suspect no one has a problem with.

You suspect wrongly. Our work code of conduct specifically forbids relationships between people in the same reporting line, because there's an inherent imbalance of power. (Though you have to be nearly as high as God to have a secretary these days, but the principle is still the same.)

BeyondIBringYouGoodTidings · 19/12/2016 11:23

Plus can I point out that you are talking about large age differences, then using the fact that men reach "peak" mid thirties vs women in their mid twenties as evidence. That's ten years. I have never seen anyone complain about a ten year age difference (so long as everyone involved is out of their teens!!)

Datun · 19/12/2016 11:32

EBearhug

I agree there is usually an imbalance of power. The point I was trying to make, rather clumsily, was it's not necessarily an age gap which is frowned upon in and of itself.

EBearhug · 19/12/2016 11:33

I would say that there is a lot of pressure for women to move out of tech into related roles like project management, that sexism is rife and women are regularly talked down to, talked over and belittled.

I agree with this. I look at my reporting line, and there's one other woman in the 9 layers twixt me and the CEO. There are several technical departments where there are no women. My male colleagues aren't going to have suppliers' engineers commenting that it's really unusual to see a man in the datacentre, but I've had it about women - not from women field engineers, but then I've literally only seen 2 in the two decades I've spent round datacentres, because female field engineers are rarer than female Unix sys admin.

There are lots of support networks for women in technology, and I enjoy going to their events, because it reminds me that it's not just me! And there are lots of things to do with unconscious bias pushed at managers, which is all good, too. But there seems to be precious little pushed at the majority of workers down on the ground, and they're often the ones who are creating the culture and working environment we really experience, that makes us feel included or not. There are issues at all levels - girls dropping out at school, at uni, when the apply for jobs, when they take maternity leave or are made redundant and decide it'll be easier to do something else than fight this shit all the time, the ones who are never put forward for that critical project to gain relevant experience to be considered for promotion, those who aren't paid as much as male peers, so go to negotiate a parish and are penalised for being pushy, where a man would be rewarded for it...

It's all so tiring.

JoeJoe80 · 19/12/2016 14:27

This is rarely stated, but patriarchy is upheld just as much by women as men. What if women don't want men taking away their jobs in PR and admin?

Breaking down gendered employment barriers entails opposition from both women and men.

Lweji · 19/12/2016 14:31

patriarchy is upheld just as much by women as men. What if women don't want men taking away their jobs in PR and admin?

It is certainly upheld by women as well, but I don't think it's a matter of not wanting men to take their jobs in PR or admin.
I think it's more in terms of demanding as much of women as men do.

JoeJoe80 · 19/12/2016 14:36

Try and get a job as a receptionist as a man.

EBearhug · 19/12/2016 14:42

We have male receptionists. Reception and phone answering isn't the only job they do - there's a team, who have a rota to cover those parts of the job and then more behind the scenes stuff like managing meeting rooms and stationery and I'm not sure what else. What I am getting to is I don't know what job title they applied for when they got the job, but there's certainly evidence that women won't apply for some roles because job titles and task description's put them off, so it would seem likely it works the other way.

BertrandRussell · 19/12/2016 14:44

Sadly one of the narratives supporting the patriarchy is that the "front of house" of a business should be a reasonably glamorous woman.

Another good reason for men to be feminists.

girlwiththeflaxenhair · 19/12/2016 14:46

Sadly one of the narratives supporting the patriarchy is that the "front of house" of a business should be a reasonably glamorous woman.

Link ? :)

Missswatch · 19/12/2016 14:50

Or could be that women want that job more than men. How come there are older receptionists as well? It'd make sense to have all receptionists as early 20's done in makeup size 8

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