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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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To lol at the feminism threads....

999 replies

Hannah4banana · 18/12/2016 00:58

Seriously are people constantly looking out for a way to be offended Hmm first world problems!

OP posts:
WhenSheWasBadSheWasHorrid · 18/12/2016 18:13

What is a GF

Goady fucker, I don't think you are by the way.

Coffeerun · 18/12/2016 18:13

Op I'm late to the thread but just a few things to think about.

Female genital mutilation
Rape statistics, only 5% of rape allegations end in a conviction
2 women a week killed by their partners
Girls being sexually assaulted and harassed at school
12 year old girls being wolf whistled at

These are just a few issues that affect women. If you think all of the above are wrong, then how can you say you're not a feminist?

With regards to pink and blue stereotyping. Well sexism starts very young. It starts with pink frilly banygrows, impractical shoes and dresses, dressing girls up to be pretty. Then giving girls dolls, kitchens, toy irons, princess dresses, jewellery makers, baking set, toy brooms and hoovers. Meanwhile boys get superheroes, cars, tools and science kits.

We are showing girls their place in the world from day one.

There was a programme on once and they did an experiment with toddler boys and girls and their parents. The toddlers had to do activities such as running and climbing and the parents had to say whether they thought the toddler could complete the task. The parents of all of the girls seriously underestimated their daughters physical abilities, and most actually stepped in to hinder the girls. Whereas the parent of boys let them explore.

Of course women these days are high achievers, society is more equal than it was years ago. BECAUSE of feminists, winning is the vote, campaigning about legalised rape with marriage, the right for women to own property. But we still have a long way to go.

Good for you for becoming a firefighter and breaking the mould. I suspect a large majority of women don't become firefighters because they are the main carers for young children.

Please don't laugh at feminism. Some of the things discussed may seem trivial to you but often these seemingly small issues feed into much bigger problems.

Just like how a penny coin is insignificant until you have thousands of them.

user1482025636 · 18/12/2016 18:14

Is a goady fucker anyone who criticises your views? That's convenient. Just like anyone who criticises Brexit is a 'Remoaner'. Generally if people resort to dumb epithets then that means they've lost the argument.

amispartacus · 18/12/2016 18:14

But you rarely hear from them

I hear women talking about economics all the time. Do they need to say they are feminists?

I hear men talking about economics. They don't often say anything about their beliefs.

DJBaggySmalls · 18/12/2016 18:15

Missswatch
You can shut down any conversation with 'someone else has it worse off than you so shut up'. As you well know.

BertrandRussell · 18/12/2016 18:15

Miss-that link? Don't forget, will you?

Boundaries · 18/12/2016 18:15

Miss

Evidence? Links?

amispartacus · 18/12/2016 18:16

s a goady fucker anyone who criticises your views

Can you explain WHY you think more men are likely to be homeless? What issues do you think cause this? What needs to be done to address this?

(might as well talk about men's issues)

TaraCarter · 18/12/2016 18:16

Actually, I have some personal experience of homelessness- not MC, y'see, and it is my belief and experience that homeless women are more desperate to avoid rough sleeping and so "sofa-surf". Often in exchange for sex. Which is just sexual exploitation.

But I don't expect you'll believe me.

iloveeverykindofcat · 18/12/2016 18:16

So user, if you admit there are feminists saying important things about economics, why did you state that feminism 'rejects economics'? It's almost like you're moving the goalposts....

kua · 18/12/2016 18:17

User substitute the word feminist for women and hopefully you will realise how ridiculous that statement is.

Missswatch · 18/12/2016 18:19

But they do have it bad. Awful in fact. Enjoy your life of luxury, they are lucky if they have sanitary pads yet they still fight. Western feminists are cotton wool compared to the balls of steel middle eastern women doing the fighting

user1482025636 · 18/12/2016 18:19

No I'm not saying we're we're all psychopaths. I'm saying there is a dark side to human nature. If you give people power than many of them (though not all) will abuse it. Look around you. It's happening everywhere.

Civilised order can easily break down and when it does both men and women can do barbaric things - even nice people you go to work with and live next door to. Look at Nazi Germany, Rwanda, Bosnia, Syria etc etc.

Missswatch · 18/12/2016 18:22

Bert

www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2038997/In-Downton-Abbey-male-servants-taunted-feathers-women-going-war-So-whats-truth-cowards-tormentors-Feather-Girls.html

I know Daily Mail. Can take the guardian as gospel but daily mail are liars

BeyondIBringYouGoodTidings · 18/12/2016 18:22

I predict another two hundred posts of women asking miss for links, while Miss sidesteps the question and complains we are doing nothing about the Middle East.

And with that, I am off to watch a film.

Missswatch · 18/12/2016 18:24

I need to provide links to women fighting in the middle east?

Google is your friend. Do an image search

BeyondIBringYouGoodTidings · 18/12/2016 18:24

🙄

user1482025636 · 18/12/2016 18:25

Sorry that's my bad. I should have said that most popular feminism is failing to present an economic analysis. Laura Bates and all these people aren't, and rarely is economics mentioned in Mumsnet posts on feminism and the popular blogs. There are a few though. People like Gail Dines and other socialist feminists do of course.

Most popular feminists are basically on the liberal right. Everything is about individual women getting more power, money, recreational sex whatever. It's all bourgeois lifestyle stuff. Or about semantics.

Comparatively little is about changing things on a collective, structural level.

Boundaries · 18/12/2016 18:26

miss you are missing the point.

I care a lot about Syria. The children of Aleppo. My thoughts are very often with the women there.

That does not mean I can't care about "everyday sexism" here.

Cating about those things is all part of my feminism. As is talking to the children in my school, showing them the Michelle Obama speech, challenging catcalls in the street, volunteering with a charity supporting women in the sex industry. All parts of my feminism.

amispartacus · 18/12/2016 18:26

You haven't answered why men are more likely to be homeless. I agree that men are more likely to be on the streets. Why?

user1482025636 · 18/12/2016 18:27

To be perfectly honest, I don't really know. Do you have any thoughts?

BeyondIBringYouGoodTidings · 18/12/2016 18:27

I'm still waiting for proof that all feminists think women are only losing in fights to men because of social conditioning, and that sex differences do not exist.

amispartacus · 18/12/2016 18:29

o be perfectly honest, I don't really know

So you are concerned about homeless men but can't think of why?

So maybe there are women who would rather stay with someone who is abusive because they can't leave - for a range of reasons.

Or they know that life on the streets is dangerous for women so they do all they can to avoid it

Or men are likely to leave and leave the children - and parents with children get accommodation

Or men don't want to ask for help until it's too late

iloveeverykindofcat · 18/12/2016 18:30

What is this 'human nature' of which you speak? How precisely would one examine it, sans culture and politics?

And my family is from Iraq, so I've 'looked around' me plenty, thanks.

On a more evidence-based note, I refer you to Becks. et al (2013) in the Journal of Social Cognitive and Affective Neuroscience 8. Most people are empathetic to direct suffering. It takes a great deal of brainwashing to overcome our empathetic response. What's we're not particularly good at is empathizing with large numbers of people far away - see Nodgren and McDonnel on the scope severity paradox. Now I've just given you solid, peer reviewed evidence based on meticulous experiments that your 'dark side to human nature' is arrant nonsense. Will you read them?

iloveeverykindofcat · 18/12/2016 18:32

And incidentally, I agree with you that a lot of popular self-proclaimed feminism is quite bad.

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