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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Bit victim blamey? And putting being attacked equal with being an attacker?

261 replies

JustBeyond · 15/12/2016 10:37

That's my opinion, what do you think?

www.facebook.com/dorsetpolice/photos/a.718756231475885.1073741828.568402286511281/1618761368142029/?type=3

Bit victim blamey? And putting being attacked equal with being an attacker?
OP posts:
BeyondIBringYouGoodTidings · 15/12/2016 19:10

It becomes bad advice if it prevents someone reporting because they feel "at fault"

girlwiththeflaxenhair · 15/12/2016 19:15

I've never disregarded consent, because as a female, I am the one to give it.

Eh !?

fliptopbin · 15/12/2016 20:31

I live in a city with two rivers and there have been far too many tragic deaths from people drowning. I would happily walk home in daylight, (if I fancied a good walk as it is 2 1/2 miles each way) but drunk or not, the lack of footpaths and streetlights in the last half mile mean I would not chance it after dark. The problem comes when drunk people decide they will take the (unlit) river path as a shortcut.

thiswashelpful · 15/12/2016 21:05

I think the advice makes sense, it seems reasonable, practical, general advice in view of reality in England today (and not only here!).

The victim blaming is a real issue, but I'd keep that a separate topic of discussion.

In the real world there are plenty of predators looking for opportunities. I was attacked on university campus on mid-Saturday morning many years ago. These scum target people when they are vulnerable, and when they see an opportunity and think they will not be caught.

sashh · 16/12/2016 06:40

If you take a licensed taxi or call an Uber/Hackney, you should be safe

Unfortunately that is what the police believe and why John Worboys got away with assaulting women.

One victim was laughed at by police when she reported her attack, because the police thought black cab = safe

Stegfi · 16/12/2016 06:50

John Worboys was horrific, but I'd like to think that policing has changed a lot since then. In the wake of Jimmy Saville, which everyone is still reeling from I know mindsets have changed a lot.
With the amount of victims of historic crimes coming forward it seems a good indication that victims feel they will be believed.

SomethingLikeFlying · 16/12/2016 06:53

That's not victim blaming. There are ways for you yourself to minimise dangers to yourself and others. No, if I was sober I would not walk home alone at night because of the risks so I wouldn't if I was drunk either.
That doesn't mean to say that if I did walk home alone anything bad that happens would be my fault. It absolutely wouldn't. BUT there is nothing wrong with actively avoiding situations where I might be in danger, because I would like to get home safely thank you very much.

BeyondIBringYouGoodTidings · 16/12/2016 08:52

As I said, I have been grouped twice by prebooked taxi drivers. One took me off route and the other did it right outside my house. How many other women do you think have a similar experience and haven't reported? After all, it's hardly rare for women to not report assault and even rape.

BeyondIBringYouGoodTidings · 16/12/2016 08:53

*groped

ToucheShay · 16/12/2016 08:59

What is the success rate of such posters, anyway.

If it prevents someone getting assaulted, raped, hit by a car, falling asleep and dying in a doorway, falling in river, being mugged, losing a purse/wallet/mobile phone, falling over and injuring themselves.............

yes, I wonder how much heartache, pain, public funds, policing time, NHS time, judiciary time, time off work etc could have been saved. Yep, you're right, the poster is a waste of time Hmm

BeyondIBringYouGoodTidings · 16/12/2016 09:05

You don't have an answer then

BeyondIBringYouGoodTidings · 16/12/2016 09:06

?

Stegfi · 16/12/2016 09:11

It's not just victim blaming or a fear that they won't be believed that prevents both women and men reporting sexual assault and rape. Some to choose to deal with it in other ways. I know I did.

ToucheShay · 16/12/2016 09:13

Beyond thats terrible - did you report it?

I doubt I would have ever taken a cab again if it happened to me - you were brave to take another cab after the first incident.

Gileswithachainsaw · 16/12/2016 10:06

Yes cos a rapist will decide to not disregard consent cos they saw it on a poster Hmm

Gileswithachainsaw · 16/12/2016 10:15

And what use is the poster when what happens is not a result of a persons intentions to go out and get drunk but a result of scenarios that happen whilst out.

A poster won't stop someone's phone being stolen or some drunken idiot spilling g beer over it on the table and breaking it.

A poster won't stop a twatty friend or boyfriend from starting a fight and storming off leaving the person to finish the journey home alone with no phone and no money.

JAPAB · 16/12/2016 10:30

Gileswithachainsaw following the advice of the poster might reduce some risks some of the time. It won't shield you in an invulnerability cloak. What safety advice ever does.

M0stlyHet · 16/12/2016 10:35

Touche: "What is the success rate of such posters, anyway.

If it prevents someone getting assaulted, raped, hit by a car, falling asleep and dying in a doorway, falling in river, being mugged, losing a purse/wallet/mobile phone, falling over and injuring themselves............"

If, on the other hand, what the poster actually does is to entrench victim blaming attitudes making it less likely that juries will convict (anyone remember the judge's summing up where he said the victim had been guilty of "contributory negligence" because she'd been wearing a short skirt), then it will be counter-productive. That's the problem with this approach. Yes, one individual may see the poster and take a taxi home (leaving aside the issue of the risk of the taxi driver possibly being a potential attacker), but all that happens is the rapist targets someone else instead (because it's fairly well established by criminal psychologists that rapes tend not to be opportunistic spur-of-the-moment crimes, but are actually pre-planned). Ultimately the only thing that's going to reduce the prevalence of rape is persuading would-be rapists that they are likely to get caught, and if they are caught, likely to be convicted. And sadly, that's the last thing rapists need to worry about at the moment. This sort of poster is more like a "list of things that your defence barrister can use in court to get you off" than a genuine attempt to help the situation.

Gileswithachainsaw · 16/12/2016 10:41

But so much of that "advice" is very often the entire reason you end up not following the "advice"

You choose to Stay with your friends way after you wanted to on the basis of not being left alone and you spend the cab fare home getting into the club you don't want to.

You get in a car with a strange taxi driver because you wanted to leave sober.

You walk home alone cos you tried to do the nice thing and walk your friend home or git out the taxi when the driver started giving you the creeps.

You were promised a lift home then you saw your friend take a pill so you walked home....

Basically going by that poster you are pretty much screwed and as much to blame for the incident as if you got into your drunk friends car and ploughed into a tree

And of course your rapist isn't a rapist he just git drunk and made a bad decision. Just like you did when you agreed to let him drive or walk you home...

KathArtic · 16/12/2016 10:46

You see what I do when crossing the road is stop, look both ways and ensure it is safe to dross before stepping out: Not blindly step out in front of traffic because it's the drivers fault for hitting me.

Gileswithachainsaw · 16/12/2016 10:46

This sort of poster is more like a "list of things that your defence barrister can use in court to get you off" than a genuine attempt to help the situation

You summed it up perfectly

JAPAB · 16/12/2016 12:15

This sort of poster is more like a "list of things that your defence barrister can use in court to get you off" than a genuine attempt to help the situation

And if a defence lawyer ever does in 2016 or beyond successfully get a court to acquit an accused rapist who spiked a drink or had sex with a woman too drunk to consent, on the grounds that she left her drinks unattended to get spiked, or got too drunk to have the capacity to consent, in the first place, then this would be a matter for having an urgent review of both that trial and the way such things are dealt with generally. It would not make the advice bad advice.

BeyondIBringYouGoodTidings · 16/12/2016 12:19

Ched Evans.

JAPAB · 16/12/2016 12:26

What about him?

BeyondIBringYouGoodTidings · 16/12/2016 12:38

"And if a defence lawyer ever does in 2016 or beyond successfully get a court to acquit an accused rapist... ...or got too drunk to have the capacity to consent, in the first place, then this would be a matter for having an urgent review of both that trial and the way such things are dealt with generally"

Really, you see no similarity?

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