to think you should only be given an Oscar for the female actor if you are female?

[amispartacus]

Or at least you've had surgery 'down there'?

And not just because you're gender fluid?

www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/films/news/oscars-2017-history-made-as-academy-considers-rupauls-drag-race-contestant-kelly-mantle-best-actor-a7466981.html

Kelly Mantle is a drag artist. Fair enough. Not the first male to do drag and not the first actor to play 'drag' in films - cue Tootsie and all that.

But to be up for an award in the male AND female actor award?

SpeakNoWords

And infamously, Alien was written with no genders specified and they cast it based on who was the best actor.

Aliens was the same with Vasquez - she was written to be simply be of Latino heritage. Turned out the woman who came in to audition was the best person for the role, so she got the gig.

Oh and Jodie Foster has basically had a career of this: She's played roles written for men in Panic Room, Flightplan, Elysium, The Brave One and Inside Man. Sigourney Weaver too, she's done it in: Alien, Chappie, Vantage Point, Paul, Baby Mama and Abduction, without any rewriting of the character.

I didn't know that BowieFan, that's interesting.

If anyone wonders how this will play out, guess who the highest grossing woman is directing is... Lily Wachowski (nee Andrew). There is no other woman in the top 50.

As a PP pointed out I don't think Wachowski's should be counted as they were men when they made the Matrix trilogy. I don't think they should be counted at all but...

However, there is at least one woman director in the top 50 - Jennifer Lee who directed Frozen which is no 5 all time biggest grossing film.

Actually not that many openly gay actors in hollywood playing straight parts prawn, that's why they are so far in the closet they could be in Narnia. Rupert Everett, Richard Chamberlain have spoken about this. Russell Tovey does a good job of not getting stereotyped. Some gay actors do not even get the gay parts as they go to straight star names the studios want. Same as the obstacles facing black and asian actors in the kinds of parts they get offered. Aziz Ansari's sitcom episode "Indians on tv" covered this beautifully. It's a reason colour blind casting should be aimed for...without which we wouldn't have had the delightful John Cho romancing Karen Gillan in Selfie.

That's a good point - I can think of loads of times straight actors have played gay parts, but struggle to think of gay actors full stop unless it's a stereotypical camp role.

James Dreyfuss in "The thin blue line"

For gay actors who get straight roles, you only need to look at Matt Bomer. He played a womaniser in White Collar and it was absolutely believable, same with Magic Mike and AHS Hotel. All this whilst he had a husband and three kids at home.

Neil Patrick Harris also played a womanising hedonist on How I Met Your Mother despite being openly gay and again it was completely believable.

John Mahoney - Frasier's dad on Frasier was gay but played straight, as was David Hyde Pierce who played Niles.

Wentworth Miller managed to play an action hero in Prison Break and Resident Evil who had relationships with women, despite being gay himself.

Zachary Quinto has played straight in Heroes, Star Trek, American Horror Story, Hitman and various other shows, yet he's also gay.

You'd actually be surprised how many gay actors are playing straight roles.

You're right - I knew all of those but just couldn't think of them!!

Now here's a challenge... lesbians playing straight women...?

And Ellen, Cynthia Nixon, Jim Parsons, Ian McKellen, David Hyde Pierce (Niles in Frasier), Jane Lynch, Ben Whishaw, Sara Gilbert, Ricky Martin, the actress in Juno (whose name I can't remember!)

I think it is less of a barrier than it used to be. Also it is more likely an actor will 'come out', rather than be outed.

....ellen page! I knew would remember!! Portia De Rossi. Lily Tomlin, Jodie Foster.

Jodie Foster in Silence of the Lambs, Little Man Tate and Elysium
Sarah Paulson in American Horror Story, American Crime Story and 12 Years a Slave
Ellen Page in Juno, Inception and X-Men
Michelle Rodriguez in Fast and Furious series, Machete and others
Cynthia Nixon (Miranda) in Sex and the City
Portia de Rossi in Scandal, Arrested Development and Nip/Tuck
Lily Tomlin in 9 to 5, I Heart Huckabees and Nashville

There's others too but can't think off the top of my head!

Cherry Jones who played a straight female president in 24 and various other things.
Holland Taylor, who has been acting for years but played Charlie Sheen's mum in Two and a Half Men
Kirsten Vangsness who plays the straight Garcia in Criminal Minds
Miriam Margolyes in Babe, James and the Giant Peach etc
Kelly McGillis in Top Gun and Witness

Guess it depends is they played or continue to play straight roles when they are fully out.

For women - Jodie Foster springs to mind but the movies she made recently didn't really have her playing a smooch you romantic role. She was straight in Panic Room, Flight Plan, The One - but was single or a widow. Coming out for Anne Heche seemed to put an end to her being considered a romantic lead.

Sophia Ward, Cyntia Nixon, Saffron Burroughs, Portis Di Rossi play straight but not really the main romantic lead.

Ah - cross posted with some others. But none of those listed really get big romantic lead roles.

True, but how many proper romantic films are made nowadays? Most actresses don't want to be the romantic lead anyway.

Michelle Rodriguez/Vin Diesel are pretty much the main relationship in Fast and Furious.

Of course, in old Hollywood ironically people were less bothered by sexuality. Greta Garbo, Marlene Dietrich and Joan Crawford all had lesbian relationships without any issues. Of course, years ago you only had to worry about the press. In the internet age you can be caught at any time even if you're not in the closet but just trying to stay private.

It's changing now though. People like Ruby Rose and Cara Delevigne are playing lead roles in films and are openly Lesbian and nobody really cares. People understand that sexuality is fluid so it's less of a problem. It also helps you have people like Harry Styles who refuses to comment on his sexuality saying he has nothing to be ashamed of if he is gay or straight or bisexual. He has had relationships with guys as well as girls, so it's nice to have someone like that who shows it doesn't matter.

And I'd argue Kelly McGillis was pretty much part of the biggest romantic screen couple in the 1980s, when she was openly Lesbian.

I had no idea she was a lesbian when she did Top Gun and Witnessand I was a big movie buff.

I'm obviously ancient but I also don't know anyone who is openly "fluid"in their sexuality in real life.

Kelly wasn't officially out until 2009. She did live with someone pre Top Gun but was also married post (cutting long story short she struggled with her sexuality). Obviously talented actors can play any role. Kevin Spacey springs to mind. Nonetheless, whilst I hope it IS changing for the better, A listers tend to keep schtum. Jodie only officially came out as she was switching from acting to directing. Kirsten Stewart I guess is still A list but is still understandably guarded about her sexuality (don't blame her either).

In theory whoever is right for the part should be right for the part.
Personal experience might help in a role but doesn't mean you'll get it.
John Barrowman (who's gay) lost the role of Will in Will and Grace to Eric McCormack (who's straight) as they thought he wasn't "gay enough" John Barrowman who would outgay Simon Amstell in a gay off John Barrowman
That said, once you are synonymous with a role, any role, that makes it twice as hard to not be typecast subsequently. It's why Peter Capaldi and Bryan Cranston did well with creating two huge characters rather than only being known for Thick of it/MITM.

Well, honestly, the movie awards always present soem sort of controversy and I guess that is just another one we have to live with.

Well Golden Globes announced nominations today and Kelly Mantle wasn't on the lists.

I checked both for thoroughness

What a shock, said no one ever.