to think you should only be given an Oscar for the female actor if you are female?

[amispartacus]

Or at least you've had surgery 'down there'?

And not just because you're gender fluid?

www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/films/news/oscars-2017-history-made-as-academy-considers-rupauls-drag-race-contestant-kelly-mantle-best-actor-a7466981.html

Kelly Mantle is a drag artist. Fair enough. Not the first male to do drag and not the first actor to play 'drag' in films - cue Tootsie and all that.

But to be up for an award in the male AND female actor award?

Possibly or perhaps it's art/craft versus big noise/stunts, making a film for themselves rather than for the cash although many actors choose to make 'one for me' 'one for the studio', not sure how many directors go that route, Spielberg stands out.
What did you mean though by using Lily W as an example of how things will pan out?

User the dinosaurs are those trying to drag women and their rights back to the last century by making the definition of woman 'whatever a man says' instead of using actual science. For example, progressive is adding gender neutral spaces instead of insisting people of either sex can use women's spaces based on their feelings (whilst ignoring women's).

I'm sure this person is very talented but their talents don't make them a woman any more than my ability to make a delicious curry makes me Indian.

I do wonder why we can't celebrate trans and their struggles separately instead of needing to validate their belief and disregard women and their struggles.

Spartacusglen.

The biggest obstacle in actresses way in competing against men in the oscars is that history and films taken from novels women are the supporting cast there is just not the same opportunities. The imitation game, Kiera played the role of a highly intelligent women but history confined her to her place.

I hate all this. I work within the drag community and Kelly Mantle is a very talented person. I am GLAD she's been given this opportunity

Someone who does drag is not female. They have just dressed up as an OTT stereotype of a woman. It's very strange how someone can just say 'well today I feel female' so treat me as female - without bothering with physically altering the body to adapt to the mind.

Why should they be in the female award category?

Sorry if I've missed it but has Kelly mantle said how they feel about this?

Sorry if I've missed it but has Kelly mantle said how they feel about this

twitter.com/thekellymantle/status/806235936962940928

'Honored and humbled'

CherryChasingDotMuncher

Oh no, personally I am of the opinion that you are whatever sex you identify as - the operation doesn't bother me. It was just a point because there were people saying even people who have been through the full process aren't real women, which is very wrong I think.

I've no idea if my friend has actually had the operation, but it doesn't really bother me. She's a great person and it doesn't change my opinion of her at all knowing she was born as a male.

I don't understand why drag is still a thing now. It's always made me feel so uncomfortable with all the hair and make up. Like a really nasty parody of women.

Some transactivists are trying to get drag banned because they say it's an offensive parody of transwomen 😳

Won't somebody think of the agender people who aren't eligible for any awards?!

Oh and drag is woman-face, on a worse level than trans as at least (old skool) transpeople genuinely believe they are women

There's your problem bowie. You can present as whichever gender you choose but sex is determined by your chromosomes and we can't change those no matter how much a person might want to.

Some of us are so left-wing progressive with our radfem bad selves that we went through that and out the other side to the cool, calm waters of, 'gender is imaginary and restrictive, sex is an actual characteristic, used to oppress women'. You know, real life not First World bullshittery

And some of us are not left wing in the slightest, wouldn't describe ourselves as radical or even particularly feminist, and still think sex is a biological fact which cannot be changed, however much surgery you have and whatever you decide to wear. Wear what you want, "identify" as you want, call yourself what you want - I couldn't care less. But don't insult me and millions of other women by saying you're a woman when you were born with a penis.

I did miss it.

The trams community get a bit upset about drag queens ime.

Bit tactless of Kelly on all fronts although I've looked them up and it seems they identify as male and female so they aren't technically a drag queen in the true sense although they did do drag race - oh fuck it I need a lie down now!

*Oh no, personally I am of the opinion that you are whatever sex you identify as - the operation doesn't bother me. It was just a point because there were people saying even people who have been through the full process aren't real women, which is very wrong I think.

I've no idea if my friend has actually had the operation, but it doesn't really bother me. She's a great person and it doesn't change my opinion of her at all knowing she was born as a male.*

bowiefan you might be of the opinion that you are whatever sex you identify as. I might be of the opinion that the sun rises every morning because it's pulled through the sky on a chariot. We would both be wrong. Sex is a biological fact and can't be changed. I have trans friends and I don't think any the less of them for being trans. I just know they aren't women in the same way I am, and when talking about periods etc , I don't feel the need to say "some men have periods" or "some men need abortions" because that's bullshit.

So Kelly Mantle isn't a transwoman, doesn't 'identify as a woman' - he's a drag artist?

That's not even like nominating Rachel Dolezal for an award meant to celebrate the achievements of black people. It's like nominating some random white person wearing blackface.

I haven't seen Kelly Mantle's movie and have no issue with him winning 'Best Actor' if he's deserving of it (even if I have my own misgivings about drag as a parody of femininity). But nominating him for both awards is nonsensical.

4 out of 5 trans people don't have "bottom surgery", so you think only 1 out of 5 qualify as real women?

I know this was addressed to another poster, but there's still no such thing as a woman with a penis.

"I think I would identify as gender fluid if I was a young woman starting a career in acting, it would seem to open more doors than just being a woman."

So they are going to give male roles to gender fluid women? John Maclean might be played in the future by Emma Stone? Superman by Keira Knightly? As long as they identify as gender fluid - they will be considered for male roles?

No such thing as a woman with a penis. Transwomen are gender nonconforming men.

A lot of people who don't know anything much about the whole trans business assume that transwomen are mostly gay men, that they have crippling dysphoria and have had "bottom surgery." When they hear that over 70% are sexually attracted to women and that 80% still have a penis it usually comes as a big surprise, makes them rethink their opinion.

Glenda Jackson is playing King Lear to great reviews in London at present.

"Some transactivists are trying to get drag banned because they say it's an offensive parody of transwomen 😳"

Yes, I've read their views saying this. Doesn't seem to occur to them that women might think many transwomen are an offensive parody of women.

Transwoman actor Jen Richards sounded off big time on Twitter about Matt Bomer playing a TW and how disgusting it was that cismen thought they could or had the right to play the roles of TW. Only Transfolk should represent or play transfolk. Again it seemed to be lost on Jen that many women might have the same problem with men who think they are women - appropriating everything female - including jobs, awards, scholarships, sporting awards etc.

"Glenda Jackson is playing King Lear to great reviews in London at present."

Really? Wonder if Hollywood is ready to go there. Trying to think of where somone of one sex was seriously cast and portrayed a member of the opposite sex. I did love Linda Hunt in The Year Of Living Dangerously when she was cast as Billy.

It's not really the same thing, but Angelina Jolie took the Salt role that supposedly was going to be Tom Cruise (I think).

The podium of the women's 800m Olympic final contained 3 people without normal female anatomy/hormonal history. This may be considered progressive, but it certainly isn't eqitable.

Demanding that only transgender actors play transgender parts is ridiculous. How many gay actors play heterosexual parts? How many physical cowards play action heroes? It's fucking acting, ffs.

Yes, I've read their views saying this. Doesn't seem to occur to them that women might think many transwomen are an offensive parody of women

It's almost unbelievable that the obvious irony is lost on them, but apparently it is