to think you should only be given an Oscar for the female actor if you are female?

[amispartacus]

Or at least you've had surgery 'down there'?

And not just because you're gender fluid?

www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/films/news/oscars-2017-history-made-as-academy-considers-rupauls-drag-race-contestant-kelly-mantle-best-actor-a7466981.html

Kelly Mantle is a drag artist. Fair enough. Not the first male to do drag and not the first actor to play 'drag' in films - cue Tootsie and all that.

But to be up for an award in the male AND female actor award?

If Eddie Izzard could get nominated then I reckon my Rupert Bear hot water bottle cover could.

Eddie Izzard - used to be a male who likes wearing clothes linked with women.

Now he's transgender.

^ called himself gender fluid. I got a bollocking on here for pointing out he had jumped on the bandwagon by deciding he was gender fluid rather than a transvestite but he claimed gender fluid was the umbrella term now (iirc I would have to check sources).

this for me sits alongside things like Wonderwomen getting made a UN ambassador - because clearly there were no actual women with insight, skill and experience to fill the role

Is almost as though the reality of being a woman eg female genotype, female phenotype, female experience, actually being a female actor relating to the role is less important than female stereotype and enforced female socialisation (eg gendered presentation and how well you live up to this)

hazey they couldn't stand in both unless voters gave them the sufficient votes required for both categories (unlikely unless they really really really loved the performance). It's an interesting one, I'll admit. Looking at it statistically, it could even go against her with a split vote, I hadn't thought of that but for those going with the politically correct angle, if they voted for her as female but others went with the traditional voting for the actor by their biology as opposed to the role (Jared, Felicity, Linda et al) the vote would split, they could not add them all together with the binary submission.

But you could argue that for the gay experience or the trans experience dida yet think how many trans and gay actors are passed over for the roles: their experience actually being trans/gay counting for fuck all in casting as a "known " name is needed by the studio or they look too gay/trans or not gay/trans enough.

*Eddie Izzard - used to be a male who likes wearing clothes linked with women.

Now he's transgender. *

So?

[ It's almost as thought the reality of being a woman is less important than female stereotype ]
Almost?

I used to think Eddie Izzard was a great example of breaking down gender stereotypes and enforced gender expectations. He was a man who liked to wear makeup, heels and dresses sometimes, just because he wanted to. He was happy to say he's just a bloke who likes those things.

Now he says he's trans, and has a bit of boy DNA and a bit of girl DNA. He's now reinforcing gender stereotypes and gendered expectations, and claiming a biological/scientific basis for them. It's massively disappointing.

Terribly disappointing, SpeakNoWords. I used to be a massive fan of Eddie Izzard. Now he's just another proponent of gender stereotypes. Nothing radical or creative about that.

sorry, twas a slightly ironic 'almost' there

I am always amazed by people who think denying biological reality is progressive. It's not - it's neoliberal and the consequences are REgressive for women because it involves the removal of rights from us. The CountessofFitzdotterel said it better than I ever could.

The majority opinion on this thread is not of the conservative Daily Mail stereotype kneejerk type. You're doing these posters a disservice thinking that. It's generally from women with progressive, feminist views who have actually got properly thoughtful and thought through ideas on the notion of transgender rights and its potential to erode women's rights in several areas. So people are not minded to say ''There there, bless, if you feel like a woman well, you are one'. Because the stakes are too high and the possible losses are too significant.

So you may not agree with the opinions but conservative and kneejerk they are not.

You do realise that surgery can't change someone's sex, Bowiefan? It's purely cosmetic. And as only 20% of transwomen have that surgery that leaves 4 out of 5 still equipped with their dick.

I appreciate you like your colleague but wonder how you define the word "woman" if a man can qualify. Woman = adult human female. There are stereotypes: girls like pink and heels, boys like blue and tractors, but that's superficial. Sex is fixed.

Nonsense if they are nominated in both categories. Sure!y if this person is a drag artist and not planning on becoming a trans womam then they are a man. Drag artists generally appear to be actively parodying women and I think are pretty insulting rather in the way that somebody 'blacking up' would be so to nominate this man in the female category is pretty bad in my mind.

Female actor? Surely that's an actress.

If anyone wonders how this will play out, guess who the highest grossing woman is directing is... Lily Wachowski (nee Andrew). There is no other woman in the top 50.

It's not just drag artists who adopt "woman face" like a costume. I don't think transgender is any more acceptable than transracial. Why was Rachel Dolezal criticized when Caitlyn Jenner was praised?

I believe a lot of women in the acting profession think the term actress should go -

actress comes into the same category as authoress, comedienne, manageress, 'lady doctor', 'male nurse' and similar obsolete terms that date from a time when professions were largely the preserve of one sex (usually men). As Whoopi Goldberg put it in an interview with the paper: 'An actress can only play a woman. I'm an actor – I can play anything.'

"There is normally no need to differentiate between the sexes – and if there is, the words male and female are perfectly adequate: Lady Gaga won a Brit in 2010 for best international female artist, not artiste, chanteuse, or songstress.

Well, if you've gone through the actual operation to become a different gender, and that's what you identify as, I don't see how that person is not a real woman/man etc

So if a transwoman (male to trans) spend 20 years "living as a woman" but never got the surgery (and lets face it, who would blame them, it's VERY risky and has varying levels of success, can leave a person extremely ill) they aren't a real woman? 4 out of 5 trans people don't have "bottom surgery", so you think only 1 out of 5 qualify as real women? do you if your friend had surgery?

Does that make me a real woman still?

OMG! bowie knows a TW who passes!

We're all horrible! The scales have fallen from my eyes! I can't believe I've been such a bigot because a stranger on the internet claims they know one example!

I'm off to rethink my entire stance on this. After all bowie did "sigh" as well, which always adds so much weight to an argument.

I know Diactylos
Great post

Non-story made to drum up publicity for a crap film

mrsterry the top 50 highest grossing directors' list is based on what their films made at the box office so Lily's inclusion on that list is based solely on the Matrix franchise (directed when Lily was Andrew and Lana was Larry). Neither Wachowski would appear on lists based solely on this decade as they have not directed blockbusters.
Nor would they appear on recent highest earning director lists as they now direct in TV (Sense8 on Netflix, have heard good things about it). There is a huge discrepancy between male and female actors' paychecks (in part because men ask for more allegedly). There is a huge discrepancy in how many women direct (same as female to male stand ups, it is a male-dominated industry) but Lily being on that list is based on her directing two decades ago. I guess they don't want to dead name her. It's a tough one, like if one starts listing Bruce Jenner's sporting achievements under Caitlyn, except film direction and its awards/pundits were always awarded as a single category.
(Making Kathryn Bigelow's win over James Cameron even more sweet).
If you mean her inclusion on that list rewrites history, yes it would appear to. If you are outraged that no other woman makes that list many women choose to direct indies (hurt locker, piano, beaver) rather than big box office action movies. Although Patty Jenkins will probably make a 2017 list when her film WonderWoman comes out. Jodie Foster made Money Monster but it was small budget
comparitively.
Would Lily or Lana be taking the nomination of a fellow female submission if submitted for awards in the future: no, because directing awards are based solely on merit. There are no separate categories. Do they have more pull in the industry than their female counterparts....they have twenty years' worth of experience (Bound was an excellent debut and passes the Bechdel test), have contacts but so do women like Foster.

I hate all this. I work within the drag community and Kelly Mantle is a very talented person. I am GLAD she's been given this opportunity.

You all sound like fucking dinosaurs.

There don't have to be separate categories. Because there are so few female directors, it would be embarrassing. As for female directors choosing arthouse low-budget gigs... isn't that like women choosing jobs that are paid less? Rather a circular thing?