Elderly downstairs neighbour just asked me what trouser size I am!!!

[ReActiv]

VERY LONG POST!

AIBU to ask for help in how to deal with this man?

I'm sat here feeling really angry at him and worried I'm going to end up snapping at him next time i see him (probably in an hour for his scheduled 10.30am pestering!)

He's elderly and lives alone. He's recently had an accident and injured his wrist. I'm trying to keep all this in mind - i'm normally quite patient - but i cannot take much more of this.

Basically - i've known him around ten years. He lives on the ground floor of our building. I live on the first. We've always just been "Hello, how are you?" type of acquaintances. But since our other neighbour died two years ago - they were close - he's tried to engage with me on a much friendlier basis, and i just cannot be annoyed with it. He's actually making me miserable. Particularly this week.

Example:

Usually i leave the building at 7am to drop my daughter off at breakfast club. His lights are usually off, so i presume he's sleeping. So we get to leave the building with no hassle.

However, i finished up for Christmas last week (I'm a final year student but have a shit load of assignments to hand in before Christmas and exams to revise for in early January) so was looking forward to working from home these next two weeks while my daughter is at school. Nope - have so far achieved nothing of the sort this week.

Each morning as we're coming down the stairs to head to school, his door opens and out he comes. His front door is right next to the communal entrance/exit, so he stands there blocking it and tries to engage me in conversation. My daughter has been late for school 5/5 days this week because of it this week.

On Monday, he told me about his wrist injury that happened Sunday night. I was polite, showed concern, told him i was here if he needed me (did not give him my new number this time, as last time after he got another injury a few years ago he was phoning up to 5 times a day asking for things or for a chat). I got my daughter to school ten minutes late.

Then on the way back, he saw me coming up the path (his living room window looks out onto the exterior communal entrance so there is no way of sneaking in/out without him seeing) and stopped me again with a shopping list. I thought fine, fair enough, i did offer. I asked him if it was anything he needed urgently, as I wouldn't be heading out again until 3pm. He assured me it wasn't.

An hour later, he knocks on my door and thanks me again for offering to do his shopping. I thought it was a hint for me to get it bought, so i asked again - is it anything you need urgently? He said nope, happy to wait til the afternoon. Then he asks for a drink of water as he's just had to hoik himself up a set of long stairs to see me. He was really looking wobbly so i invited him in for a sit down (feeling very uncomfortable all the while, he's never been into my house before). He didn't leave til 2pm! I made him lunch and he ended up watching my telly. I still have no idea how this came about and am so angry with myself for not being more assertive. A totally wasted day.

I won't go into detail of every single day but it's just been constant this week. Usually it's maybe 2-3 times per week he catches us leaving/entering the building, or knocks our door so I've tolerated it previously. As i appreciate he is lonely. But this week, it's been 5+ times each day. I'm unable to leave or enter the building without his door opening. I'm unable to sit and relax and concentrate on my work at home as I'm so on edge the door is going to knock.

But basically, he stops us every morning before going to school to chat to us about nothing in particular. I've said bluntly the past three days - sorry, pete (not real name) but we're very late. Can you tell me after i drop DD off at school? He apologises then continues prattling on. No matter how many times i repeat. And i can't physically walk away because he stands blocking the exit.

Then on my way back from school around 9.20 - he stops me again. I've started walking in pretending i'm talking on my mobile. But then he knocks my door about an hour later asking if this is a good time - so yesterday, every time i answered my door (gas man, postman etc), i've had to answer it pretending i'm on the phone again in case it's my neighbour.

I've had to start leaving the house at 2.30pm to collect my daughter from school (school is less than a five min walk away) just so he can get his conversation out of the way without me being late to collect my daughter at 3pm.

This morning, i was completely on edge going down the stairs. Me and my daughter were practically tiptoeing - sure enough, he opened his door. How the hell can he hear us?? I said outright before he'd said a word - sorry pete we're very, very late. And made for the door without making eye contact. Out he comes and blocks it. Then starts talking about something irrelevant - not urgent at all - then asks "Listen, pal, was just wondering what trouser size you are?" I laughed, as I was surprised. He didn't elaborate. So i asked why. He said "My friend's neice has got a load of trousers she's trying to shift. I could get you designer stuff half price". I was fuming. Really worried i was going to snap at him. Told him no thanks, i don't need new clothes. He tried to convince me again, telling me i wouldn't get them at a better price etc, offering to get the neice to come round and show me them later if i wanted. I repeatedly said no, can we get past? He tried a few more times then moved out the way.

Sure enough, on my way back he came out of his house holding his mobile, I pretended to be on my mine, so hand gestured now was not a good time as i've dashed upstairs talking on the phone to my imaginary friend Joan and came here to rant. I presume he had pictures of the trousers on his phone and that's what he wanted to show me.

He regularly tries to get me to buy things from his friends. Always acting like he's doing me a favour getting things cheap. Always following a sob story about how his friends need the money. or his friends are raising money for charity. Sofas, toys, raffle tickets, tickets for charity nights, but it's never been anything personal. I'm just really pissed off about this latest one as he acted so normally when he asked me my clothing size. i'm probably over sensitive though.

Other info:
He is very independent. Not open to the idea of carers (I suggested this on Monday as a temporary measure until his wrist is better and he was livid at the suggestion)

He is cognitively astute - no obvious signs of impairment in conversation

He does have family come at the weekend who take him out. But they aren't very nice. I tried to approach them about 8 months ago after pete had come to my door really drunk and upset about a family friend dying (who i dont know at all!) and so I asked them to have a word with their dad (pete) as it had disturbed my daughter. I got an earful about how their dad isn't a pest, and how much their dad is fond of me, and how it's expected of neighbours to look out for each other.

Sorry this is so long. Started writing it when i was still full of rage. Actually think i've calmed myself down a bit just by ranting here.

Telling him outright that no this is not a good time for a chat is ineffective as he just tries again later.

Yesterday, coming home from school pick up in the afternoon, he tried to chat to us again. I sent dd upstairs to let herself into the flat. I told him tactfully that he has to stop coming to the door, catching us on the way in/out etc as I had lots of work i need to get done. Maybe he could just pop his shopping list or a note through the letterbox or leave it under his door mat and i can check it etc? He looked a bit bashful at this and apologised. I thought that had done the trick. Clearly not after this morning's trouser sale chat!

He told me previously that he comes from quite a tough family so he has plenty of friends who could knock someone out. So i'm actually really scared to do anything behind his back (such as report him to environmental health for neighbour meditation, or go to his family again for support.) He didn't just tell me this randomly by the way. It was a response to something. He'd stopped me once on the way to uni to tell me he'd been getting some grief from a woman a few streets away about something daft. Apparently she had become quite threatening. I advised him to phone the police. He laughed and said his family don't deal with the police. if he had an issue, it was dealt with through his nephews and sons.

On the plus side - he's told me the physio has said his wrist should be fixed in 6 weeks so should i just tolerate this for another 5 weeks?

And i'm moving out once i graduate in the summer so i'm not feeling too down, as i know this isn't forever.

What would you do in the meantime?

Again, sorry for the length! Feeling much better after just ranting it out. But still a bit on edge as i know he's going to knock again soon. And he knows that i'm in, so ignoring doesn't work. he would happily stand there all day knocking.

Do you have a big male friend that could "escort" you through once or twice?
Much as I hate to use that tactic, sometimes men see "woman with no obvious male presence around" as a harassment target.

We had this in out first flat. Neighbour next door would stand in the door frame of the communal entrance and talk at you....before eventually allowing you pass.... She would know our schedule... And be waiting for us ( me and dh) in the car park for a chat..

If we went out she would wander the corridors she once met us in the carpark at 2 am ???

We moved my nerves were frayed and I was just on edge all the time...I was afraid to leave the flat..... She never 'did' anything but was constantly there all the time

I agree with everyone, you need to be rude and assertive. Don't stop, push your way through him, appear disinterested in any conversation, keep walking.
If he persists on knocking the door, personally I would open it and have a go at him and close it before he could answer back.
He isn't lonely, he's getting a kick out of intimidating you.

I was also going to suggest the idea of getting someone to stay with you for a few days. Seems an OTT things to have to do, but needs must.

Another option, maybe, would be to get some large (ie obvious) headphones and sunglasses, so you can legitimately ignore what he says to you, and avoid eye-contact. Not sure how well it would work, but possibly worth a try...?

Have you ever asked him why? Obviously not first thing in the morning when you're getting later and later for school, but maybe when you're going for the afternoon pick up, say Pete, I keep telling you that I have to go to take dd to school in the morning because we are going to be late if we don't go and yet still, you don't move, It's incredibly rude and you're not only making dd really upset because she hates being late as she gets into trouble, but you're scaring her too when you won't let us get past. And you are obviously doing it deliberately but I can't understand why you want to make our lives so miserable? It's not fair.

the only language people like this understand is rudeness, id tell him to move out of your way and seem irritated and have a fuck off face, he'll soon get the picture, the only way is to fall out with him.

I don't know if this would work and it would probably only work a few times, but can you walk out carrying an enormous cardboard box. When your neighbour stands in the doorway just ask him politely if he could open the door for you and just walk through, thank him and be on your way.

I know that's not a long term solution but you need a break from this and this is one thing I'd try.

I also will repeat above posters who said you must stop being polite. Do not apologise, do not explain. Make sure he gets the message that when he bangs on your door for whatever reason, you will not open the door to him , you will not entertain him and make absolutely sure that he gets the message that he is not important to you. Definitely must not offer any help with shopping or anything at all. He is not your responsibility, your dd is. How dare he makes your dd late for school every day and doesn't give monkeys about it and when he so clearly, so blatantly takes advantage of your good nature he still gets treated with politeness. Make sure he knows that he is not welcomed to your home and make sure he understands without a doubt that you will not tolerate him imposing himself upon you. Be very cold towards him. Stop being polite and considerate. He doesn't care about you. Totally block him. Don't give him any excuses. Make sure he understands very clearly that he crossed a line and you dropped him like a hot potato. Good luck.

Another thought. Given his background and references to bringing in the guys to sort out problems ...Could it be that he doesn't take you seriously as you're "just a woman"? Do you have a male friend or family member that could knock on his door and have a word, letting him know he's taking advantage of your kind nature and getting him to agree some boundaries. If you don't want to blank him completely your accomplice could say you are willing to do a shop for him once a week on a regular day and after where he'll leave the list.

It sounds like harassment to me. He also sounds extremely rude - you need to be a lot more assertive with him.
He is pushing your boundaries to see how far he can go.
Blocking your exit when you tell him your daughter will be late for school is awful.
Don't make allowances for him being older and recovering from a broken wrist.
I would be rude back. If he needs help with anything he will have to go to his family.

^At first I thought he sounded like a very lonely old man but your subsequent posts have creeped me out.^

Totally agree with this. He sounds intimidating and downright rude. Plus constantly trying to flog you stuff you don't want.
Agree that you're going to have to get much tougher and physically push past him if he blocks your way. It's absolutely awful that he makes your dd late for school and continues hounding you all evening.

Could you move sooner? I really don't think I could live like that. It really can't be good for your nerves and mental health to feel so harassed in your own home.

I don't think he's being deliberately harassing, I think he genuinely doesn't appreciate that his behaviour is unreasonable. He's probably lonely and thinks that because you're there you have nothing better to do (like him). You've been friendly and he's obviously taken that to mean that you want to be friends when actually you're just being polite. You just need to make it clear to him that you don't have the time or inclination to be his new best mate - and that will take persistence on your part! And great patience.
On the shopping front, next time he asks tell him that you've not got time to go shopping for several days so if he needs anything urgently he might be better asking his family to get it for him. And like everything else - repeat :)

Oh it sounds really exhausting and stressful.

I think you are going to have to lose your temper with him. For some people that is the only thing they respond to. In the morning: Pete, please move out of the way, we are late, Please move, PLEASE MOVE!

The alternative is to write to him. Advise that his constant visits and stops to chat are making your child late for school and interfering with your work and your quiet enjoyment of your home and that it needs to stop. You are sorry about his wrist, but that he will need to find someone else to assist with shopping from now on.

Keep a copy of the letter and stick to your guns. There is the risk that he will escalate, or that his family will become nasty, but if you keep the letter neutral (not friendly, not apologetic, not at all apologetic!) then they will have nothing to complain about.

And yes, it pains me to say it, but is there a bloke you can move in for a while?

Is it the same landlord for both properties? Are there other flats in the block, or just your two?

You need to set some very firm boundaries, and act on them. That means using body language assertively. Assertiveness is not rudeness - you do not have to be angry with him.

Figure out what you are prepared to do and lay it out for him. You do NOT need to give extensive reasons - it makes you seem weak.

If he's blocking your way:

"I'm sorry Pete, we are late for school and I can't talk now" and breeze past

If he's at the door:

"Sorry Pete, I'm busy right now, but I am free for an hour on Thursday between 1 and 2 if you want a chat." (If you want to chat, that is). And shut the door.

When he shows up, remind him you have to go at 2: 'I'm really sorry Pete, I've got to crack on. It's 2 o'clock already. Same time next week?'

If he asks for shopping: "I'm sorry, I'm not going to the shops until Wednesday. I can pick up some bread for you then?" and turn or walk away.

Basically, keep moving around him. Do not sit still. Do not stop. If you have to stand still, start moving again asap.

He may be a bit shocked and hurt at the start, but he'll soon get used to it.

I really do not think you should find props and accessories to carry with you to make you look busy etc in case he comes out again. Remember you don't owe anything to this person and do not involve a male friend to "talk" to him on your behalf either. It'll give him some sort of feeling of self importance and it'll flatter him. He will keep feeling in charge still. The only way to get rid if him is to be rude and assertive to him, getting him to understand in no uncertain terms, that you are blocking him from now on. Make him understand that if he asks inappropriate questions you'll answer to him rudely and that you block him totally. If you bangs on your door after seeing your lights on, its even better that you don't open the door. It means yes you are at home and no you are not opening the door to him. Loud and clear.

Oh really empathise. Sounds utterly relentless. Even ignoring him completely when your in your flat would be stressful if he continues to yammer on the door non stop/just lies in wait to pounce.

It is sad for him, as he's obviously dismally lonely. Though, after working mainly from home for ages now, I've dealt with so many similar incidents and my patience has just chipped away.

On the bright side - it will teach you to be mega assertive, as it's the only way you'll be able to regain control, and enjoy your home.

Based on my own experience, here’s some tips I found helped:
--I’m shy, and can get a bit anxious about confrontation (and general social interaction sometimes!). A trick I used for stuff like him standing in the hall way/blocking exit as you are trying to drop your DD off to school: I found it really helpful to decide on single simple (polite) phrase I was going to say, for example,
'Sorry, can't talk late for X',
Just KEEP REPEATING it over and over again. No pleasantries, no possible conversation starters. No mentions of when you possibly WILL have time to talk.
--When you have the above exchange, do not be pressurised to excuse yourself with saying you will talk when you are back/tomorrow/whenever. Unless you do plan on genuinely chatting to him ‘later’, don’t say you will. I have a bad habit of slipping that in when finishing my conversations with, ‘talk later’ and some people do take that VERY literally ;)
-- As pathetic as it is, I honestly would keep up with the whole ‘on the phone’ act.

--Same with not answering the door. The whole telling your daughter to go get you urgently when you were in the bath was horrible. Hopefully that’s a one off, but I think next time if he tells your daughter or you that it’s ‘important’ stay put, just ask is it emergency, and if so, can you call police/ambulance/etc
--Try your best not to let him inside flat. Uninvited guests sitting in your living room are a lot harder to remove than those on doorstep

And get used to saying and then doing, ‘Goodbye, I have to study now,’. Shut door.
Some people just don’t listen for shit. I used to be too polite to basically slam door in face/hang up on someone - but couple years back I had a pan on my oven burst into flames(!), due to someone not adhering to my asking to end the phone conversation repeatedly(40 some min ago). After that, ermmmm… Fuck it.

May I ask roughly how old he is (I never can tell on Mumsnet what ‘elderly’ is going to mean! :) )? I’m just wondering how much ‘help’ he genuinely needs. I think you can do the above and continue to also be alert and sensitive in case there IS an emergency or issue.

This is definite harassment - it's what older men do to harass women and get a kick out of forcing them to be polite and pleasant and give them attention when they are no longer capable of being sexually or physically threatening. Although he is being physically threatening in an 'old man' way when he's pretending to not realise that he's blocking your way. Anyone who has ever worked in a shop/café/museum or similar will know all too well that older men come in quite specifically to talk at and demand the attention of younger women. It's a sly form of harassment.

You need to stop doing any shopping or favours for him. It doesn't matter that he's hurt his wrist or whatever, he is acting like he is owed your time, help and attention purely because you're female. And you're going along with it, however begrudgingly. You don't need to apologise or make excuses, just inform him that you're not going to do it anymore. If he asks why, just say because you're not. Use the broken record technique on him.

You are also going to have to be very firm, even rude to him about him blocking your way. Say loudly and firmly, "Pete, every morning I tell you that we need to get past. It's obvious I can't stop to chat because I'm taking my child to school. And yet you stand there blocking our way every time. Well, it stops. Today. You are not going to keep doing this to us, it is unacceptable and you know it". Please remember that your daughter is learning from you how to deal with men like this and, although you are being nice, you are teaching her to put up with this and not deal with harassment. Women are socialised to be nice precisely to allow men to get away with shit. Time to shake that off.

Good luck to you, he sounds a right nightmare. If he's from a very 'tough' family, he's probably learnt to get attention by forcing people to give it. It is not, however, your responsibility.

.

I agree with PP that he's being aggressive and intimidating (and quite possibly getting a kick out of it). You sound like a kind and good natured lesson and so understandably you want to help out but folk like him see it as a weakness to be exploited.

You are entirely within your rights to be firm and assertive and tell him no. And don't feel bad about it either - he doesn't feel bad about making your life difficult.

*person, not lesson

He is stalking you. forget thinking of him as a frail elderly man. You say he's not confused or in any obvious state of vulnerability so he has no excuse. Bothering you several times a day is totally unacceptable and if he genuinely can't see that then he clearly does has MH issues, even if he doesn't look like he does. At the very least he has massive boundary issues.

He's just being a pest because he's bored and lonely and very thick skinned, but that is not your problem. You've made the mistake of being too polite and accommodating and you are just going to have to put your big girl pants on and get more assertive and aggressive now. He is banking on you being too soft to tell him to bugger off.

Disconnect your doorbell, get a spy hole fitted if you don't already have one, and just stop answering the door unless you are expecting someone. When he blocks your way in the corridor just say briskly 'Morning! Excuse me please, I am in an awful hurry!' and actually put your arm through the gap to the side of him to clear a way.

If he tries to detain you with conversation or block you way then tell him very firmly again that you need to go. If he refuses to take you seriously then say loudly and very assertively

'Pete! You HAVE to stop this. It's getting silly now. Unless it's an emergency I just don't have time to stand and chat with you every time I leave the house. I have appointments and you are making me late and starting to really invade my space and privacy. Let's not have to fall out over this. Please just back off.'

It won't be easy but unfortunately nothing can improve until you tackle it head on.

you and your daughter HAVE THE RIGHT to feel comfortable i your own surroundings.
Pesonally I would have a firm word with family and contat agencies such as the Salvation Army and local lunch clubs and pass on any info to them. Maybe Age UK too.

Once you have done these kind and thoughtful deeds I'm afraid you eed to pull back massively.

Like Beryl, I would also suggest writing to him - take the emotion out of your original post but write a factual account of what he's doing, how it makes you feel, and the consequences (ie late to school) tell him it's affecting your DD. His reaction will be telling - if he's genuinely lonely, he should be apologetic and understanding - if it's intimidation then I guess he won't change, and then you have a better idea of what you're dealing with. But I do symapthise; I am also not comfortable with tackling things like this head on, and then people take advantage. But you can't continue to feel like you're living in a goldfish bowl, it's not healthy for you or DD. Good luck xx

People in this position should not write to the persecutor to tell them how it makes them feel
They should put up a wall and not engage. But OP might not feel safe or comfortable doing that.

You've done more than your fair share for him. Not sure how old he is, but if he needs help with things like shopping etc, instead of you doing it maybe point him towards Age UK. Not sure what they offer in your area or if he's eligible but if no family can help they do offer a shopping service. Maybe he'd benefit from that and that would be one less thing he can collar you for!