Increasing someone's pay because of benefit cuts

[buckingfrolicks]

My company employs a small number of people, all paid well above the living wage and in line with SE England national averages for the jobs.

One person has 4 children all at school and a spouse who doesn't work.

This person has asked for a pay rise because their family has had a significant (several hundreds) cut in benefits as per the Government changes.

This person has asked for a pay increase as a direct result.

Would it be unreasonable to say no? The employee is a good worker and not one we would want to lose. However, no one is irreplaceable!
If the job had, say, an increase of 6K a year (what the person is asking for), then we would be able to recruit someone on that salary with more experience, qualifications and skill, than the current post holder.

As an employer we are generally left of centre and in favour of supporting people, including our employers - we aim to be a good employer and keep good staff.

So WIBU to say no to a pay increase?

You are getting some very strange and hostile replies here for some reason.

Your employee has made clear their domestic circumstances. You may have to accept that they will leave.

Surely, they will only leave if they can find another job that will hire them with the skills and experience they have, but will pay them more. OP says they are paid the going rate, so the employee will struggle to find a better paid job. So it's not a foregone conclusion that they will leave.

Not necessarily I don't believe that at all other business will pay more for the job she or he does. All they need is experience and anyone can lie on a cv about how much experience they have. Lots of people bend the truth to get a step up the ladder. There is a good chance that he or she will go as they do have mouths to feed. If the Op is coming on here looking for advice then I don't believe she or he knows the going rate. Every business is not the same they all charge different rates whether the op likes to believe that or not.

Woah! I have no idea what 'Justintheknickersoftime's' post meant! None!

OP... that employee is being paid well over the NMW and the NLW, just under the average UK salary and you have explained that for 6K more you would anticipate hiring someone with considerably more experience than they have.

That last is all you, your company, that employee needs to know... they are asking for almost 25% more whilst not having the skill set and experiences that could justify it... they are, indeed, a chancer!

Step 1: Formally respond: Tell them that f they wish to discuss remuneration they should follow the formal procedures set out in their contract.

Step 2: Informally respond: Tell them that you would appreciate them behaving in a more professional manner.

Step 3: Read up on the benefit cap. It is entirely possible that they are lying to you! In which case you need to revise your relationship with them.

So do this the right way... report it!

Ourblanche I'll put it in bullet point format

*. Employee approaches op, asks for pay rise

• Op decides to ask Mumsnet if she should give payrise adding helpful information about a large family and an out of work spouse. *Inevitable responses follow based on helpful information used to guide Mumsnet
• Op is glad of Mumsnet jury response and decides to reject employee request as she is clearly a cheeky fecker *. A few posters have pointed out that perhaps OP hasn't been that professional herself. Those posters inevitably are ridiculed

I realise everyone has their opinions,. But this thread has been goady IMO .

I'm not disagreeing that the whole thread has been weird...

This is now the rhetoric, laying the blame firmly and that the person in the scenario that is disenfranchised. Which of the bullet points covers this?

If you say no to the request basing it on the assumption that they are a cheeky chancer and easily replaceable then I would have no respect for you as my employer. What other basis is there, given that OP has already explained that the 25% pay rise would normally get a far more qualified and experienced employee?

Your employee has given you a chance to make a decision about their importance within the company. You don't have to judge them. It's not helping your company to do that. How the hell do you assess someone's worth to a company without making some kind of judgement? Ouija board?

Your bullet pointed version really doesn't tally with the more verbose, judgemental one you made earlier

Make a judgement on their work not on how many children that have or benefits they receive. It shows a lack of respect towards her or his employees. Then run to mumsnet after and have a gossip about it. I think the op was hoping for a different reaction.

I'm intrigued as to whether, if the employee hadnt mentioned benefits cuts, whether the OP (and other posters here) would have considered the pay rise?

A 6k pay rise when they are already getting the going rate for their role. No I wouldn't!

Oh, god, I wasn't bloody troll hunting, but I firmly believe the OP is being goady, because if she/he is a regular on here, then he/she must know that any thread about people with large families claiming benefits is going to lure the usual sanctimonious posters down from their ivory towers like flies to shit. In the last couple of days, various posters who have dared to mention they are struggling financially, are being berated for not doing enough to 'help themselves', by the same posters each and every time. I also found the OP's navel-gazing about 'moral dilemmas' in his/her last post rather affected, but I could be wrong.

JingleJess I didn't report your post, honest - though it now looks at though I did! It did read much more troll hunting than ^^ does though. And I agree. The whole scenario, as well as the responses, was weirdly off

blanche. No, I didn't think it was you - it's fair enough as I used the word 'authenticity' which was uncalled for. I suppose I'm more interested in the OPs motives, really. They must have known what was going to ensue!

25k is a graduate salary in this area. Without knowing more about the area of the country etc, it can't be said that the salary is too low.

Near me, a nice 3 bed semi, in a good area, can be had for £160K +. I know in other areas this would be an awful lot more.

Ourblanche I realise there is irony in my stance, I am judging the judger. And your right that my last two posts probably say different things. I think I've invested too much in this thread because I have said in a post earlier in the thread that our family had a similar response when my DP asked for a payrise. He is an electrician. He jumped ship and now works for himself and he had worked for his employer for 10 years. If he had offered him more money he probably would have stayed We have three dc and our tax credits were cut. At the end of the day, you pay the market rate but if there is scope for some kind of pay increase (and I'm not sure if it's entirely clear that the employee has specifically asked for £6k or has just put the op in the picture about their circumstances) then in my opinion the op should consider. If there's no scope due to budgetary constraints the fair enough. But to frame it as some kind of lesson to the employee that they shouldn't have had such a large family is off and unprofessional. I think more and more employers are going to have to face up to these kind of requests because over the last decade because wages have been skewed because of tax credits. They have benefited, it's time to repay via a living wage.

Intheknick,......but, why should an employer take family circumstances or size into consideration? Dh used to work with someone who had 5 kids, we had none at the time. They were paid according to their rank and specialisations (HM Forces). Had his colleague been paid more because he had a large family, then it makes a mockery of the pay structure.

But I'm not saying that at all! The op needs to think outside the box, not just judge. I'm stepping out of this thread now as clearly after many posts I have failed to make my point.

They have benefited, it's time to repay via a living wage. 25K is a living wage, It is a graduate wage. It is mid pay scale for college lecturers, professionals!

I think that might be why your point about family and judgements might be being missed. The amount of money being discussed is almost the 'average wage' and is way higher than NMW or NLW.

That and the person asking seems to be embroidering their case a little, making them sound greedy and cheeky.

My points are probably a bit mixed up. As I say this post hit a nerve with me. I don't know the employee, and yes they could be a chancer. I think the op is genuine but has framed this whole debate wrongly. It was the judginess by the op that I found out of place in a professional environment.

It happens. If it has hit a nerve then there is nothing you can do, especially if it then seems that you are paddling upstream

Also, this is very off thread but this kind of judginess seems so far removed from the heady days when tax credits were introduced and the "pick it up, it's yours" adverts. Now everyone is a.scrounger and a low life if they have tax credits and a large family and are considered incapable of planning or looking after themselves or their kids. this kind of attitude is just increasing. It's like a race to the bottom and I find it depressing.

It does get to you sometimes ourblanche . I shall keep trying. But not tonight, Strictly calls.

intheknickersoftime if your partner works as an employee for a company then they will pay him peanuts. Working for himself or even as a subcontractor for a company who pays very well for each job. I will pm who they are.

There is always someone out there willing to pay you more for what you do. The op hasn't given any details of what the job is we only have her word for it.

There is always someone out there willing to pay you more for what you do. The op hasn't given any details of what the job is we only have her word for it.

Doubt they would pay you 6k more, however.

It depends on the job and location.

As horidhenry says, £6k more is possible in some industries. My DP has managed it. I used to think that though. Thanks for information horidhenry.