Increasing someone's pay because of benefit cuts

[buckingfrolicks]

My company employs a small number of people, all paid well above the living wage and in line with SE England national averages for the jobs.

One person has 4 children all at school and a spouse who doesn't work.

This person has asked for a pay rise because their family has had a significant (several hundreds) cut in benefits as per the Government changes.

This person has asked for a pay increase as a direct result.

Would it be unreasonable to say no? The employee is a good worker and not one we would want to lose. However, no one is irreplaceable!
If the job had, say, an increase of 6K a year (what the person is asking for), then we would be able to recruit someone on that salary with more experience, qualifications and skill, than the current post holder.

As an employer we are generally left of centre and in favour of supporting people, including our employers - we aim to be a good employer and keep good staff.

So WIBU to say no to a pay increase?

We have 4 kids and I don't work because I had a breakdown 2 years ago and can't cope with stress. We're getting tax credits, PIP and housing benefit and my husband earns 32k but it is a real struggle. There is no way on earth though I would be getting DH to go in and ask for a pay rise!

We had to move and buy a car this year so Christmas is going to be a huge struggle. The children's centre referred me to welfare rights and the credit union and have gotten us food parcels when things have been desperate. Maybe its worth sitting down with them, explaining that you can't give them a pay rise but suggest that they speak to CAB or a benefits advisor to make sure they are getting what they are entitled to.

People do strange things when they are desperate for cash, possibly that's the reason for them requesting in the way they did.

Okay so if 25k plus benefits isn't enough, then the employee will still have to leave.
We have no idea about this persons total income or their outgoings or their ability to work a second job (if they're not already) or their partners ability to work.

The OP doesn't have to pay up but if the employee needs (or even just wants) more then they will leave.

I would only consider a parish if they also agree to take extra responsibilities etc they should come to you asking how to develop their role/career so that they can earn more money not just flatly asking for more money for the same job just because of benefits!

What horidhenry said. I don't see the problem and it's up to you if you want to increase their pay, do you think they're worth it? The "benefits" thing is a side issue and many employers are gaining an advantage by having workers kept on artificially low salaries for years. This employee may be on the market rate but she should be able to come to you and be honest about her circumstances. My DPs last employer laughed in his face when he asked for a pay rise. He works for himself now and he is earning around a third more. His previous employer is struggling without him and was annoyed when he handed his notice in.

Bloody auto correct (and tiredness) 'pay increase' not parish !

The phrase "getting topped up" really boils my piss as well.

25k is not a bad wage. well above NMW.

The employee's problem is to have more children than he can afford and a wife who is a Sahm. Doesn't make me wonder that 25k is not a great amount but his lifestyle choices are hardly the OP's problem.

Shall I ask a payrise because I want to my this lovely huge mansion which I cannot afford with my current pay? Shall I ask for a payrise to DH can become a SAHD and I can support my family alone? He has a part ner. If one salary isn't enough then both have to work. simples.

When people cannot think outside the prism of their own existence the only ones that suffer are the next generation. £25k is very little for someone who is highly experienced and piss all to raise tbeir family on. You call yourself left of centre op but I think your possibly more to the right than you realise. This is your employee, someone who has come to you in confidence and you have invited the whole of Mumsnet to ridicule their existence and their family aspirations. Disgraceful.

It's not your fault they have excess kids. Everybody or nobody gets a rise.

Perhaps they should've thought about this before deciding to have four children and choosing to have one of the parents stay at home.

No sympathy from me.

6k is no small request either. That's a lot of money. I can't believe people think that that sort of pay difference for the same role is acceptable. It isn't. If this employee isn't exceptional, and isn't more than pulling their weight, they are no more deserving of that kind of rise than anyone else.

£6k is undoubtedly a big pay rise. What sticks in my craw is that a private request to an employer, that employer has now put it on a national website. We also know absolutely fuck all about this family really. You could offer childcare vouchers, and other types of assistance. But no. let's just reject the request out of hand as unreasonable. Because after all the chose to live like that eh?

In the nick, why should the employer offer extras because their employee has a lifestyle they can't afford? Not the employers fault in any shape or form.

If they want more money then they are going to have to do what everyone else has to do, take a second job, have the other adult do something or move jobs to a better paid one etc.

Very cheeky that ask for a raise as the state has decided to withdraw benefits as they were too much.

Fact is the working poor are increasing and the middle income families are now been driven into poverty it's the high cost of living and providing for housing is most of that cost...this is the issue people live up to the max not the min so any type of income reduction leads to massive financial insecurity, top
that off with world wide unstable markets and the predicted crashes the interest rate rises
employees will start reducing staff and wages soon as they can't make the profits cause wages will become to high but people should have a living wage that means they can live not just exist so we have a massive social issue here if we leave the EU and if we get the 10 pound living wage then TBH I think we should plan in line with the Great Depression get your debt gone grow a veg garden cut your cost make do and mend and remember most of the wealth is inherited from the old people who lock most of it away in property trust and funds so most of the money I think isn't even being spent in the economy it's just locked away rich getting richer etc

You could offer childcare vouchers, and other types of assistance

How do you know they don't...

just 'poor me, my benefits are cut, I'm broke, can I have a pay rise' type email

No way. It's a pathetic approach - whining rather than showing initiative re comparative salaries elsewhere, costs of losing employee, what extras employee brings. AND there's a non-WOH spouse? Is there anything stopping the spouse seeking part-time work? I fail to see how people's choices (SAHP and 4 children) should be paid for by others.

And gone are the days when we paid men more simply because they are "the provider". It's sexist rubbish.

No, I don't know, but how about asking the op? How am I supposed to know? The OPs impetus for posting is she thinks the employee is a chance. The op has judged the employees life choices. This was made very clear by the op early on in the thread. A good employer would not act like this. And the op actually thinks they are left of centre! Incredulous barely covers it. The employee has done bugger all wrong in asking for a pay rise. This is how things get done. The employee may well now be looking for employment elsewhere because they have been honest with their employer about their domestic situation and the op will have to recruit because they have chosen to listen to the lemming response in Mumsnet and not act professionally and consider all the options.

I'm intrigued as to whether, if the employee hadnt mentioned benefits cuts, whether the OP (and other posters here) would have considered the pay rise?

I also agree with the above poster that I have very little respect for an employer who comes on MN to ask advice re: a pay rise - this should be discussed with partners in the firm, not ransoms online. Unprofessional. I hope the employee finds a better job (and a more discreet boss) elsewhere.

*randoms

Precisely Pluto

If you can afford a £6000 payrise budget then it should be fairly distributed across all your staff and awarded for length of service, increased skills, etc. If you give £6,000 to one person, the rest of the staff WILL find out and it will cause enormous resentment.

hmm I'm sorry that it seems to some that I've been unprofessional.

It is the moral dilemma that I'm interested in - not the legal or employment law aspects, which I'm well aware of.

In my view, it's useful to revisit and test ones political and ethical positions from time to time especially as the world changes and doubly especially when one's long-held views start to have a personal cost. So I want to make sure that I have considered as many perspectives as possible. I don't think there is anything identifying in my post, I don't think my company or the employee are identifiable. This is an issue that's going to have to be discussed at an individual, organisational, social and political level: what are the employers' responsibilities, given that the state has (wrongly in my view) made life so much harder for those in receipt of any kind of benefit? And how to compare that with our individual, human responsibilities (which I feel, anyway) to help another struggling human, when we can?

Im glad you've come back. You have rejected the employees position out of hand based on your own viewpoint. Your employee has made clear their domestic circumstances. You may have to accept that they will leave. That is your job. Balancing those possibilities. You have also started what is essentially a benefit bashing thread which is demonising the working poor and large families in one fell swoop. This is now the rhetoric, laying the blame firmly and that the person in the scenario that is disenfranchised. If you say no to the request basing it on the assumption that they are a cheeky chancer and easily replaceable then I would have no respect for you as my employer. Your employee has given you a chance to make a decision about their importance within the company. You don't have to judge them. It's not helping your company to do that.

Really its not outing what you gonna say it wasn't me. It does sound like you are bashing people who are on benefits because you are in a better position of power and control. You think you are better than them.