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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Increasing someone's pay because of benefit cuts

177 replies

buckingfrolicks · 08/12/2016 18:43

My company employs a small number of people, all paid well above the living wage and in line with SE England national averages for the jobs.

One person has 4 children all at school and a spouse who doesn't work.

This person has asked for a pay rise because their family has had a significant (several hundreds) cut in benefits as per the Government changes.

This person has asked for a pay increase as a direct result.

Would it be unreasonable to say no? The employee is a good worker and not one we would want to lose. However, no one is irreplaceable!
If the job had, say, an increase of 6K a year (what the person is asking for), then we would be able to recruit someone on that salary with more experience, qualifications and skill, than the current post holder.

As an employer we are generally left of centre and in favour of supporting people, including our employers - we aim to be a good employer and keep good staff.

So WIBU to say no to a pay increase?

OP posts:
DailyFail1 · 08/12/2016 18:58

Where are you based? What is the role? £25k in itself means nothing without the market data.

QueenLaBeefah · 08/12/2016 18:59

Have they told you exactly what benefit is being cut? Because the only thing I can think of is if they have quads who are all about to turn 18yrs. I think he is taking the piss TBH.

VeryBitchyRestingFace · 08/12/2016 19:02

I think you have a cheeky chancer on your hands, OP.

If a person was genuinely financially struggling on their salary, I would expect them to looking at getting a second job. Failing that, perhaps they'd have a conversation with you about promotion opportunities in the company, taking on extra responsibility in order to get experience and so on.

Hellmouth · 08/12/2016 19:03

In my opinion, it's not a good enough reason to give a £6k payrise. I just had a kid, I'm not going to ask my employer for a £6k payrise to cover childcare costs (although it would help). YANBU to refuse a payrise.

user1479495984 · 08/12/2016 19:04

I just cannot believe the cheek of some people.

expatinscotland · 08/12/2016 19:04

I wouldn't bother asking which benefits were cut, etc. Just no. The other spouse can get a job or the employee can get a second job. You're not responsible for the choices they made in life.

FrancisCrawford · 08/12/2016 19:05

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SnatchedPencil · 08/12/2016 19:06

Not only would you be reasonable to say no, I would go further and say that you are morally obliged to. It's not the company's fault she is having her benefits cut. A pay rise should reward great work and loyalty, and most importantly treat employees equally.

The only way that an increase for this individual would be acceptable would be if every other employee got a similar increase too.

If you pander to this individual, where do you draw the line? Eg

"My rent has doubled, double my salary!"
"I'm having a second child, double my wages!"
"My parents are moving in with me and need Sky Sports and Sky Movies to keep them entertained - an extra £50 a month, please!"
"I need to buy a car because Southern Rail are so unreliable - I need £4000 up front plus an extra £200 a month for the payments, if you don't mind!"

DailyFail1 · 08/12/2016 19:07

Seperate this from the benefit issue. Her personal circumstances are not your concern - you should just be concerned whether the amount requested is reasonable for her role.

x2boys · 08/12/2016 19:09

if you were to increase one persons wages would you not have to increase everybodys that is doing the same job equal pay etc ?

SheldonCRules · 08/12/2016 19:10

No, nothing at all to warrant it.

If they can't afford to live on the salary then the other adult can work too. Expecting to support six people on one wage is ludicrous, not your fault they made poor decisions.

Fourormore · 08/12/2016 19:11

I don't think it's as simple as an outright refusal.

Could this person get the extra £6k elsewhere? Might you lose them as an employee? If so, how much would recruiting and training a replacement cost? What value can you put on the knowledge this person has of this particular role?
If they are a valued employee and I genuinely believed they were struggling and I thought a pay rise was some way appropriate given their ability to find other work if I wasn't willing to cough up then I'd possibly offer 25-50% of what they were asking.

Original poster
buckingfrolicks · 08/12/2016 19:12

Snatchedpencil lol yes a good point well made thank you!

Yes FrancisCrawford people would find out, we're a small org and it would cause mayhem.

I do suspect this person is trying it on a bit, and they do see me as a mate as well as a boss, hence the informal text approach!

I think I'll pass this down the line to the person's own line manager ... with a huge recommendation that the said line manager says 'no'

thanks all - very helpful responses

OP posts:
AyeAmarok · 08/12/2016 19:12

No, you can't decide pay based on how many children your staff choose to have! You'd have to give the same payrise to everyone else, and you can't.

Hang on, is this employee a man? Not that it matters, but I'm quite tickled by the notion that women who have 4 DC end up being paid less than the average man, and yet a man thinks his having 4 DC is a reason to be given a 25% payrise Confused Grin

Lokisglowstickofdestiny · 08/12/2016 19:13

Reverse the scenario, if he had an increase in benefits (yes I know not likely) but would he be happy for you to reduce his salary? If he wants more money he'll need to look for another job.

giraffesCantReachTheirToes · 08/12/2016 19:15

could it be the out of work partners whose benefits have been cut? eg maybe they used to be entitles to esa or some kind of disability benefit but have now been refused for this?

Just as an idea that it might be true and that is what the reason is.

but no OP if you pay a fair wage then that is all you need to do. You can't give someone a pay rise just ebcause money is tight.

BadKnee · 08/12/2016 19:21

I understand OP's point though. There is much criticism of employers not enough to live on and she is thinking about this.

Tax credits and housing benefit have allowed employers to pay less than is needed to support a family - hence her question.

However 4 kids and one working adult and who knows what expenses is part of the equation. The other side is the market - the going rate for the job and the other workers. Tricky one OP.

SirNiallDementia · 08/12/2016 19:22

HR person here.

Pay is linked to the tasks/ responsibilities of the job role, the skills and experience you bring to that role and market forces (e.g. whether there is a shortage or surplus of people who could do the role)

It is not linked to your personal/ family commitments!

If this is a man who works in a comparable role to women, you could have a sex discrimination/ gender pay claim case on your hands if you increase his pay and no one else's.

If you do increase his pay, expect similar requests from other staff who will also have personal/ family reasons for wanting a pay increase.

lougle · 08/12/2016 19:25

Actually they may well be telling the truth. If they're in a Universal Credit area and the partner isn't exempt from the employment rule, then they'd be expected to bring in up to 2 x 35 hrs at minimum wage which is £26, 280 pa. Gross. So by the partner not working, they may have had their benefits reduced.

Also, in the Tax Credit system the taper was 41% of gross earnings. The UC system is 65% of net earnings, so overall there is about a 5% loss for people moving over - the UC taper would have to be 60% net to be a fair swap but we all know it was never meant to be fair.

Added to that, there are huge penalties under the UC system for requiring housing benefit, so that would make a massive difference in benefits.

NeedsAsockamnesty · 08/12/2016 19:28

I have at times increased a salary in order to that a valued and wanted staff member did not have to rely on tax credits. It's good for staff retention

HoridHenryrules · 08/12/2016 19:31

You are bashing the woman on mumsnet for having the audacity to ask for a wage increase. YANBU to refuse but YABU to say she chose to have 4 kids. She is working hard and trying her best if anyone is being unreasonable its her dh for not going to work. Who knows why he can't work. If she read your posts on here I bet she will be looking for another job because if it was me I wouldn't want to work for you.

IJustWantABrew · 08/12/2016 19:32

They are within their rights to ask for a pay rise, if their work rate/quality of work exceeds the role they hold - yes, consider a pay rise, but then you need to consider this for all employees. If they are asking because they are skint it's a big fat no! You mentioned they have a bonus structure? Is this something that is achievable? Maybe sit down and say whilst we can't afford a pay rise we can help with additional training to help you obtain a better monthly bonus. I'm assuming the bonus is target driven?
I would love a pay rise, I can't say to my boss "can I have a pay rise because I don't get any help with child care and I have to spunk 3/4 of my wage to abandon my child 9-5 so I can sit behind a desk and take shit of people all day for near enough minimum wage"

Trifleorbust · 08/12/2016 19:34

If you genuinely feel your wages are fair and you were not relying on the State to subsidise a living wage for that employee, then all you can do is say sorry, I can't justify that given your experience, and if I could, I would already have been paying it.

Arfarfanarf · 08/12/2016 19:34

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

HoridHenryrules · 08/12/2016 19:38

Does it matter some one posted him. Him/her who carers.