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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Increasing someone's pay because of benefit cuts

177 replies

buckingfrolicks · 08/12/2016 18:43

My company employs a small number of people, all paid well above the living wage and in line with SE England national averages for the jobs.

One person has 4 children all at school and a spouse who doesn't work.

This person has asked for a pay rise because their family has had a significant (several hundreds) cut in benefits as per the Government changes.

This person has asked for a pay increase as a direct result.

Would it be unreasonable to say no? The employee is a good worker and not one we would want to lose. However, no one is irreplaceable!
If the job had, say, an increase of 6K a year (what the person is asking for), then we would be able to recruit someone on that salary with more experience, qualifications and skill, than the current post holder.

As an employer we are generally left of centre and in favour of supporting people, including our employers - we aim to be a good employer and keep good staff.

So WIBU to say no to a pay increase?

OP posts:
DailyFail1 · 08/12/2016 19:45

I think OP will prob be posting a job advert soon for £31k a year.

HoridHenryrules · 08/12/2016 19:51

I wonder if that includes bonus.

Graphista · 08/12/2016 21:00

Interesting as usually the view is employers should pay a good enough wage that employees don't need benefits.

But generally speaking having a large family is a choice, but equally they could have made that choice then their partner became ill and couldn't work.

I'd want to know

What the job is or at least if skilled etc rough idea of occupation

IS the wage right for the market (only got ops word on this)

Has this employee (indeed any of the workforce) had a payrise in say last 5 years.

Why is there a bonus but not a higher salary? I'm not keen on bonus/commission type set ups as it implies mistrust that employees will do their best, plus unfairly disadvantages new employees, lots of employers have unreasonably high targets (especially in sales)

What would the cost of hiring and training someone else

I honestly think wages are too low generally at the moment.

That said this employee has approached you in a casual manner, without giving a professional reason for the rise and seems to be assuming they'll get it.

Ultimately you know the full info so can decide on that basis and it seems you have.

AndNowItsSeven · 08/12/2016 21:03

Op how old is there youngest child?

AndNowItsSeven · 08/12/2016 21:04

I don't think you can claim
UC currently if you are earning £25k and have dc.

StealthPolarBear · 08/12/2016 21:07

" WaggyMama

You need to pay the rate for the role not the person doing it."
That's not the case at all!

AndNowItsSeven · 08/12/2016 21:10

It's something like £385 a month you have to earn less than to claim UC.

Believeitornot · 08/12/2016 21:11

This is why people are on benefits.

Because employers are used to underpaying people and have built business models on that basis.

mrscarrotironfoundersson · 08/12/2016 21:19

*This is why people are on benefits.

Because employers are used to underpaying people and have built business models on that basis.*

GF

Fourormore · 08/12/2016 21:30

£385 a month?!

RortyCrankle · 08/12/2016 21:48

You would not be unreasonable to decline. The person is not doing extra work, the other employees would rightly expect the same increase, it was the person's choice to have four children, is there a reason the spouse is not working?

AndNowItsSeven · 08/12/2016 22:38

Fourormore yes during the initial roll out , people will instead claim jsa , tax credits etc.
There a very few people currently eligible, you can't earn over £385 a month, have a disability or your child does, be sick, pregnant, pay child maintenance through official channels , own your own home and several more clauses.

AndNowItsSeven · 08/12/2016 22:40

UC computer can only really cope with practically/fully unemployed, healthy renting and not supporting a child as a non resident parent.

icy121 · 08/12/2016 22:41

Sorry you're running a business not a charity. Pay your employee the market level for the job they're doing at the level they're doing it. You can't argue with that.

Original poster
buckingfrolicks · 08/12/2016 23:05

BadKnee you have summed up my dilemma perfectly

OP posts:
DoJo · 08/12/2016 23:07

A request for a payrise should focus on the value someone brings to their employer, or at least based on the premise that they are pulling their weight and deserve some recognition of their efforts. Asking for a payrise based on external factors that are nothing to do with either the employee's performance or the employer's position suggests that this person doesn't really understand that.

Mumoftwoyoungkids · 08/12/2016 23:22

The decision whether to give someone a pay rise should be made on their performance in the job plus how difficult it would be to replace them NOT how good a sob story they have.

It isn't the X Factor.

arethereanyleftatall · 08/12/2016 23:26

It would be absurd for wages to be based on personal circumstances rather than value to the business.

If person wants more money, then maybe you could consider more hours, if you want to help?

Skylander01 · 08/12/2016 23:35

No way! It is already difficult enough for small companies to survive without all this! you sound like a great employer to even consider this, but as somebody has already said, if you agree to this, don't be surprised to see a queue behind this person asking for equal opportunities. Don't worry about losing this person, as there are hardly any jobs out there - she will find it hard to get work with such a nice boss

pootlepootle · 08/12/2016 23:49

I was told by a very experienced hr manager that you need to salary plan.

Imagine that your wage bill is left out on the table for all to see. Whilst it's uncomfortable, you need to make sure that you can justify it and explain to one person why another is paid more. If I were sat next to your 6k person doing the same job am I going to understand why I'm on 6k less. I don't give a shiny shite how many kids they've got. You're paid commensurate with your skills and responsibilities and I'd feel incredibly undervalued and think a less of you for reacting to sob stories rather than planning your wage structure.

I employ 12 people so not masses but do have a bit of experience.

Chipscheesentomatosauce · 09/12/2016 00:04

OP, just out of interest, who has the final say? Are you actual the employer? Just rendering as you say you'll pass it to their line manager with a strong recommendation to say "no".

MrsTerryPratchett · 09/12/2016 00:09

Could you offer the spouse a 6K, school hours job?

crazywriter · 09/12/2016 00:15

From a business pov take the loss of benefits out of the equation. Any pay rise would lead to more loss of benefits anyway.

As others have said the pay should match the skills and experience in the job. Is the person due a pay rise? Even so is the person due a 20-25% pay rise? That's big. But would a smaller pay rise be an option (and matched for others who do the same or similar role and have been there the same time or longer)?

Ywnbu to say no given the reason for the request.

BadKnee · 09/12/2016 00:19

I think OP sounds like a very good employer to even think about the personal circumstances of her staff.

Employers always used to take into account things other than simply the "going rate": loyalty, length of service, family- all were part of the package and it was part of the fabric of society. Obviously sometimes it was a good thing and sometimes it wasn't. (I don't know whether it would be or not in this case, much would depend on the employee and the nature of the work)

Competition and discrimination cases and increased mobility meant more "objective" and measurable rewards packages had to be introduced but the human touch was lost. (Maybe I am feeling a little nostalgic.)

DarkNanny · 09/12/2016 00:46

You shouldn't need to claim benefits if you are in work that's the whole point clearly work doesn't pay enough ! So yes work should pay...but the employee should also live within their means... 7.20 an hour is the current living wage I understand ... that's not living its existing so if you calculate rent cost of living childcare travel to and fro. Work council tax food clothes you gotta ask do you pay enough to cover those that's the point basic living wage isn't 7.20 an hour ! Why should your company be subsidised by the tax payer ?