To be so angry with DS's school right now ?

[TheLaundryLady]

Having a crappy week (see thread about friend letting me down) and it just keeps getting worse

DS's school are planning a residential trip to Shropshire next October for his year group.
DS very excited about trip so we complete the paperwork and pay the deposit as requested by the deadline. Paperwork went back about 2 weeks before deadline but due to a glitch with schools parent pay system we didn't pay deposit until the last day of the deadline.

Fast forward to today after being told that he was on the trip I receive a phone call from school telling me that they had messed up and had got the boy/girl ratio wrong and had one boy too many on the trip. Therefore DS will now be unable to go.

I was told that if he was a girl he could still have gone but they chose him not to go because We were last to pay.

Now they have known how many girls and boys are in that year group since reception.

If this was purely first come first serve I would understand but this clearly seems to be about his gender - he can't go because he's a boy.

Head teacher has basically said tough and DS is gutted

Traffic - who has belittled parents volunteering on here??

The school where I work takes up to 95 children on its annual residential trip. They always ensure that the venue can accommodate with the entire year group in the unusual event that they all want to go. I cannot imagine any case where it is acceptable to book a venue where the whole year except one child could be accommodated. If a venue is booked that cannot take all the children who might want to go, it should have been indicated clearly on the original letter that places would be allocated on a first come, first served basis.
The situation the OP is in is just wrong. There is no excuse at all. The school have been aware of the breakdown of boys/girls and should have taken this into account when selecting their venue. I would absolutely be taking this as far as it needs to go in order that your son goes on the trip. You complied with the requirements and we're not made aware in advance that there might be an issue regarding numbers. It is incumbent upon the school to sort this out.
I second pps who have suggested getting everything in writing. If necessary you send emails confirming your understanding of everything that is said. I'd also download a voice recorder to my phone and record any conversation you have. That way the ht cannot deny telling you anything in future.

Topsey I was totally unaware of this. Hmmmm, I am not sure I think that's acceptable for schools to ask, even though I've only thought about it for all of five minutes.

Traffic appears to be on a different thread to the rest of us.

TheLaundryLady
"Bloody hell what happened in my absence !"
We found some carrots?

SmellyChristmas you are absolutely right. Op do you still have the original letter informing you of the trip to show that no indication was made that numbers would be limited?

Yes I do and smellyChristmascandles your advice is sound

Hoops - it would appear so

Thinking about it, the school have confirmed that all the children are down to go as it is purely the ratio. so 60 places would be 23 girls and 37 boys. 6 girl dorms of 4 = 24, 9 boys dorms of 4= 36. Is it really likely that the facility doesn't have another dorm available? If they claim they have rung and asked, I would push it and ask they call again in front of you.

I don't know what the minimum numbers these places take, but I would be tempted to make a vague enquiry about availability for the same week for a small group and see what they say before you go in.

Have they returned your deposit through the school pay system?

It seems like it was an error. School trips rarely get 100% take up so they probably booked the dorms under the assumption it would be fine. This whole 'they can add a camp bed' thing is probably not going to happen. It will be to do with fire safety etc and he premises might be breaking a law if they put an extra bed in. Organising school trips is a right pain in the ass btw.

I too would be devastated if it happened to my dc. Go in and speak to the head and ask if there's anything that can be done.

If they don't sort it, I'd be tempted by a two week holiday. Half a week before to avoid the pre-trip discussions and half a week after to avoid the dissection.

The facility might not allow extra beds for safety reasons. That is fairly standard. And it's also fairly standard for schools to underbook as it's quite rare every child can go or pays up on time and the school ends up very out of pocket. I get why this has happened. I just think the loss of a place should be a chance the students affected (and sadly it will have to be the boys as there is one more of them) should bear equally.

If schools choose to underbook, then they need to let parents know that there is a chance that their child will not get a place. Likewise, if they operate a first come first served system, they need to let parents know, and they certainly need to ensure that their payments system works properly. What they cannot do is keep quiet, wait for everyone to tell their child that they're booking and pay the deposits, and then tell just one of them that he can't come after all.

Carrots is terribly keen on the law, but seems to have ignored the law of contract. It does look like there's a binding contract here which the school can't wriggle out of.

WouldHave: I did say that. I don't think this is acceptable at all. Not sure how far you would get with the contractual argument though.

This is appalling. The year 6 trip should be booked in a centre with enough space for everyone, it's a huge error on the schools part and you do need to complain. In my opinion it's not about contracts, or legality it's about the exclusion of one child for no fault of his own. I'm a teacher and there is no way in earth we would ever do this to a child. The year 6 trip has become a rite of passage and you are right OP it will be talked about before in class and after.

If you don't get anywhere with the school OP I would be contacting the Head of education services in your borough/council to lodge a complaint with them.

Honestly I'm aghast that this is even happening, it's beyond me how fellow education professionals can think this is ok when we all strive daily for inclusion. Good luck OP.

Definitely terrible on behalf of the school, this can't have been a scenario that hadn't crossed their minds, as you say the gender balance is a well known thing.

Please make sure the school resolves this so all children can go, not just a fairer pick of who misses out - that poor child, so much of Yr6 is about the trip, the stories, the adventure, the personal growth. This could break a child's mental state completely to be excluded like this.

If I were another parent, I would be complaining too at the injustice of it.

I thought under Ofsted rules. They were not allowed to exclude or single a child out

I'm still a bit cross that DD1's old school clearly failed to book the residential trip for their year in time. So they didn't get to go to the place that they had been looking forward to going to since reception and every other Y6 class before for 20 years (to my knowledge) and since has gone to. They still had a nice time on their residential but it wasn't the same to go just down the road.

I was cross enough about that, particularly when the school tried to give reasons for the change instead of admitting the error. But what the OPs school has done would make me livid and is totally unacceptable. I'd certainly take it further.

I work in a school but that is the craziest thing I've heard in a while. Looking forward to hearing a good resolution.

I would agree that a school that doesn't see this as a problem is not a good school.

This is absolutely not on and shows that the school is piss poor at organisation. It was never stated on the letter that places on the camp come as a first in, first served basis (although that should never happen anyway).

I am appalled that a school does not find a camp that does not provide enough beds for every child / gender on the rare occurrence that every child attends the camp.

Not the greatest solution but could you pitch a tent and have your DS share with a friend if you cannot put up an extra camp bed in one of the dorms.

Re teachers sharing, I have been a parent helper on school residentials and often the teachers do share.

Ofsted has a framework against which they judge the provision at a school. In terms of inclusion, they look at how well the school is providing for different groups of students, but they don't have 'rules' that apply to how the school treats individual students as such. 'Inclusion' in this context has a more specific meaning than making sure every student is involved in a trip or similar.

The OP definitely has a strong argument that this treatment of her DS is blatantly unfair, but it doesn't help to start talking about Ofsted, legal contracts, mental health etc. The Head needs to be approached on the main issue, which is that this is an unacceptable and unjust way to treat a child under his care.

I'm not sure teachers sharing is necessarily the solution. Would the OP's DS actually want to be in a single room if the other children are in dorms?

An utterly bonkers situation, no more no less.

Contract law isn't going to help the OP here - It's allowable to break a Contract, you just have to make reasonable financial restitution. In this case, if the school are saying they will still have care of the OP' s son during the week in question, they would have to repay the deposit- and that's about it. Better to go with the moral argument.

Damages for breach of contract would be based on putting OP's child so far as possible in the same position as he would be if the contract hadn't been broken. In this case, for instance, it could involve the cost of a hotel room nearby plus an adult to look after him in the hotel so that the can take part in all the activities involved in the trip. When a load of curriculum and other work is going to be based around the trip, it isn't good enough for the school to say they'll shove him into another classroom for that week. They may well find it cheaper to sort things out properly.

Oh your poor DS

I'd be absolutely livid !

I hope once you've had a talk they can come up with a solution so he can be included on the trip.