To think burlesque IS empowering?

[Neverknowing]

Following on from the 'burlesque' thread, I want to ask peoples opinion on burlesque I think if a woman is getting paid to do something they enjoy and they feel empowered by it then there's nothing wrong? I have a friend who did burlesque for years and said men and women who went to the shows were always respectful and she loved doing it!
Does anyone have any reasons they think burlesque isn't empowering?

I don't know, I did a burlesque class a few times and loved it! Don't see the issue... I think it can be empowering -for some women- , and not for others. Personal preference and all. Saying that, I wouldn't be brave enough to do it professionally in front of people :P I also went to a burlesque show once, and it was fantastic :) It was my lesbian friend who wanted me to come along, I wouldn't have gone alone

"If it makes a woman like herself and her body more, form friendships and keep a supportive female environment and not judge herself by boners (since burlesque is about women, not men), is that not a form of empowerment?"

No.

Empowerment us about gaining power (or enough influence/money to have power or own a means of production).

If you mean 'can be good for self-confidence' that's totally different.

No need to get angry guys, just interested in people's opinions
Also to everyone who's bringing it up a lot of men do it! Every show features men. I don't see the problem in men enjoying watching either?

You don't consider self confidence to be empowering?

And do you know how many women make good money as teachers and costumiers of burlesque?

You can turn that to any job. Does working in an office "empower" me? No is doesn't. Maybe my bosses are "empowered" because they give me work to do?

I have always found the word "empower" to be a wishy washy banded word with no real meaning unless it's to do with those in authority passing on powers to others to deal with something.

X-post with Gazing I agree :)

I guess it is a good point they don't employ overweight women though, I hadn't thought of that

Personally I LOVE Burlesque, the women are not stick thin...they are a normal shape and they flaunt it. Who cares?

I'd love to have a go.

YABU
If it was so empowering, men would do it in droves. They don't.

YUCK @ the notion that bigger women can't be "sexy" or love their bodies unless they're trussed up in 50s costumes which they strip off for an audience, and to say otherwise is telling bigger women to get back in their box

That's not empowerment. Empowerment is staying "IN" your comfort zone, because when it comes to your body, empowered women don't feel they should go "outside their comfort zone"!

Have you been to a burlesque show? Men don't go unless they're attached somehow to one of the performers. It's not for men
I have a friend who does burlesque so I've been to quite a few, the audences varied, one I went to was distinctly sinister with mostly men and it felt predatory, one was mostly a gay crowd - and had a "sexy" stripping vibe, a couple had a more mixed artsey creative crowd, another had a load of workey christmas party types/hen dos and it all had a bit of a jokey thing about it.

It's like those awful women's magazines that do a spread about "larger women looking sexy in underware to PROVE they can" - because larger women have to PROVE their sexiness???

Choice is empowering and women choose whether or not to do burlesque, wear a hijab, whatever. If you don't like it, don't do it. I'm not a fan personally but I can see how beneficial it is for many people. And I know several women who gained financial independence with their burlesque related businesses.

One year our works do (80% male workers but partners at do) had burlesque dancers.

I can't tell the difference between them and strippers TBH.

It's not empowering, it is sleazy and for sleazebags.

Strip clubs don't employ overweight women unless that's the market, because they cater to men. Burlesque stars come in all sizes and ages because burlesque is for women.

the last example I mentioned was a bit freak-show-ish, people went for a bit of a laugh

I've seen men in the shows too, maybe 1 man per show. The men in burlesque tend to make more money than the women in burlesque.

Also, something can be fun, and a laugh, and entertaining for the people who do it, without being empowering.

There's nothing powerful about taking your clothes off in a sexy fashion.

Men don't do it because they already have power, they don't need to dance around half naked for the pleasure of strangers to feel good about themselves - they'd do it for money yes, but that's a different subject.

Okay maybe definitely empowering was the wrong word.
It's more that women can do what they want, feel sexy and feel more confident in themselves and I don't think that's a bad thing? As a PP said it's mostly women at these shows.
I think it's extremely sexy to see a confident women it's not really about size in my opinion?

I read that very differently - I didn't think Queen was saying "all overweight women are unsexy" - she was talking about the "desperate and fake" element to their performance which makes it feel unsexy to her.

There aren't many men in burlesque unless you count the venue owners.

Perhaps twenty years ago, it was vaguely taboo-busting and interesting to be a normal size woman, dress up in underwear and do a routine. But nowadays, women in the public eye rarely have any clothes on and if they do, they are all straps/bondage type/racy/hardly any coverage underwear, it's just boring, look at the Victoria's Secret models, Miley Cyrus, constant selfies of reality celebs in their underwear.

Wearing underwear in public is boring, and I can't wait for women to start finding some other identities which don't involve prancing around with little on.

It also might be because I have a face like a troll I'm not conventionally attractive, so I haven't experienced it myself - but is it really empowering for women to be sexy? Is that the ultimate "power" factor - "I can make men drool"?

Also can people stop commenting about how 'men don't do it' because they do, I've never been to a show without men in it.

Queen was being utterly rancid and vile, but she's allowed to dislike the aesthetic. What she and others are failing to grasp is that it's not about turning men, or her, on. Yes, even larger or older women are allowed to enjoy their bodies as they wish, even if not a single boner or clit was pleased. Shock horror.

Men don't do it much because they're less likely to believe that being sexy = learning to ignore your natural boundaries, or to make it sound more marketable "go outside your comfort zone"

Burlesque classes demonstrate that, women go saying "I'm not going to strip completely" but by the end have been coaxed to do more than they said they would do. Because women don't really mean it when they say 'no', not really.. they're just being coy and should "embrase their sexuality"...

Dito for the audience participations ones where they take one of the audience back stage to learn a routine as part of the show -