To think burlesque IS empowering?

[Neverknowing]

Following on from the 'burlesque' thread, I want to ask peoples opinion on burlesque I think if a woman is getting paid to do something they enjoy and they feel empowered by it then there's nothing wrong? I have a friend who did burlesque for years and said men and women who went to the shows were always respectful and she loved doing it!
Does anyone have any reasons they think burlesque isn't empowering?

Sorry wrong link.

Oh wow, who knew that burlesque would be so controversial?

As for everyone judging women for doing burlesque and saying "how can it possibly be empowering" etc, can't you see how judging women for making those choices (which yes, burlesque dancing is a choice. Not often done out of monetary desperation) is removing female choice and empowerment? And when women start judging other women because of what they do with their bodies? Well we know where that ends.

As for people saying that men never do burlesque I can only recommend that you look up Tom Harlow. A truly amazing male/genderfuck burlesque performer and part of the "boylesque" kind of crowd.

Because it's still valuing women on their appearance and sexual appeal.
In what way could it be empowering?
So what if people are nice. You are still only being paid for getting being a sexually available female.

What is the power that burlesque gives, ghost?

No one says working as an accountant is empowering, so it can't be the earnings. What is it?

I also think it's insulting for middle class women to 'play' at being subjugated sex workers and pretend them doing it is classy.
Real sex workers are exploited. It's not empowering to pretend to be one

What if the woman wants to be sexy and perform? That's her choice, she can do that. No one single person gets to choose what they find "empowering" (which I think is kind of a silly word to use here) so what's empowering for one isn't for the other.

But then again, I have only been at burlesque shows in incredibly sex positive queer spaces.

Ok, so you think empowering is a silly word.

But you are bemused by other posters asking how can it be empowering?

Not following your logic here!

It's only "empowering" because we live in a misogynistic society which tells women from day one, second one, in practically every toy, advert, magazine, billboard, book, movie and so on that their main power is in their bodies and their reproductive parts.

Would a woman want to be "sexy" if it was mentally and socially thought of as the equivalent of (say) plumbing?

(No offence intended at plumbers BTW who earn a fuck-tonne more than me and are much more skilled and useful to society than me - but seem to be seen as a lower job for some reason!)

I think anything that gives someone the confidence to say "I like me as I am" is a good thing.

Flappy it perpetuates the idea that she and every other women should judge their self esteem on how others perceive their looks. There are other ways people can boost their self esteem that are healthier for themselves as individuals and don' perpetual objectification of women.

Letsghostdance
No ones trying to remove the choice to do this from these women but we must note that not all choices are feminist or advance the social standing. Do what you want but it doesn't make it positive.

I don't judge women who make the choice (to do burlesque).Its probably fun.

I do judge people who call that choice 'empowering'.

I think they are a bit stupid.

Personally I would find nothing "empowering" about stripping half naked and twirling round a pole. 'Empowering" would be a degree in engineering or being able to support your family alone because you earn so much.
Give it a fucking break with this 'empowering' by acting like whore schtick.

So those saying that 'empowerment' is a completely subjective thing - what 'power' exactly does it give a woman to strip in public?

Letsghostdance this is exactly it!!!!!!

I'm sorry empowering was the wrong word! But I don't think there's anything wrong with it and it helps women gain self confidence and shows they can do what they want with their own bodies, why are we judging them and bringing them down for that?!

It's more that women can do what they want, feel sexy and feel more confident in themselves and I don't think that's a bad thing?

It's not a bad thing, and thats great for them. But lets not pretend its some kind of feminist statement..its still women taking off their clothes in public, albeit with feathers and corsets instead of nipple tassles and g strings. It's still womens bodies for public consumption, its still tits out for cash.

I know they talk all that guff about celebrating women and subverting the male gaze and all that, but I don't buy any of it. It's also loaded with privilege in that it seeks to be superior to stripping, a job many women are financially forced into and incredibly exploited by.

If you enjoy it, that's your own affair. Don't seek validation for it as well.

The burlesque performers I know wouldn't call it empowering. For them it is just another way of making money. Just like their children's entertainment work.

You've persuaded me that its empowering, so I will strongly encourage DS to drop his science A'levels to become a burlesque performer instead.

Any activity that gives an individual self-esteem is empowering. Nowt special about pasties and feathers.

Good idea Birdy!

pasties, Matcha?

Is pasty burlesque a thing?

Stop with the 'empowering' crap, it's everything but.
I'd have more respect for someone if they said they hate it but they earn 200 quid a night & they love the money.
Most of us just work for the money, but prentending that stripping is some sort of glamorous career ( & far more empowering than teaching or nursing ) is complete bollocks.

I once heard a man say that burlesque is for women too fat to be strippers. I don't know if this is a widely held view or not.

But I don't think burlesque is empowering (or vaguely interesting).

I thought this was an intresting article

www.bustle.com/articles/124623-the-problem-with-burlesque-dancers-vintage-lovers-who-shame-sex-workers

I thought it made a fair point. I guess people prefer a more sanitised and easier to Swallow package these days. There is something a little disingenuous and hypocritical to indulge in the fashion while at the same time slate the profession and workers of its origin. Or distort the history and the nature of the work to make it feel more palletible. I guess some people just walk around with their Walt Disney glasses on all day.

Maybe empowering maybe not? I am still trying to work on that one. But I do think sex workers are a group who are often hated and persecuted from all directions. I do think it's very insulting to give burlesque a special status away from its origins.