To really like being drunk?

[GrabtharsHammer]

I'm an alcoholic and I'm aiming for sobriety. I'm finding it really hard. I'm in two different groups (not AA, it's not for me). They dont expect abstinence straight away, it's more CBT based.

I've drunk a litre of vodka tonight and I love this feeling. I feel normal, if a bit buzzed.

I usually drink half a bottle of wine during the day so I can do the school run, I don't go in the playground in the morning so it's easier but I feel I need a drink to face the pick up. I'll then drink another bottle of wine in the evening. I don't really get hangovers but the financial hit is the main issue. Thatvand the fact my family hate it.

I crave sobriety. I love the idea. But I can't see how I can say goodbye to feeling like this ever again. Stone cold sober feels jagged and painful and it's not something I can imagine committing to.

Dh hates me drinking. He's exhausted this evening and wants to go to bed but won't leave me because I'm half cut and he doesn't trust I won't do anything silly (history of self harm and overdosing).

I won't, because I feel happy and chilled, but I want to stay up and watch shit telly. I'm basically ruining his life, and I know this, but I can't bear the idea that I'll never feel this way again.

We've tried having him control my drinking but it doesn't work. And I know from therapy that I have to control it myself or there's no point. But I feel like I'm stuck at a point. I know i need to stop drinking entirely but I'm scared.

I have bipolar 2 and BPD so my emotions are generally all over the place, and alcohol is like a comfort blanket.

The old adage about reaching rock bottom doesn't really apply because I've been there and life is generally good now. How on earth can I convince myself that alcohol is no good when it seems so nice?

I know, logically, that we'd be much richer and my health would improve, but I can't seem to take that step forward. I've done loads of paper exercises, like the costs and benefits scale and the hierarchy of values and all of that, but I can't seem to make it stick.
Am I just an awful person? Too selfish to quit?

Folks you do realise that not that many years ago Cancer was talked about the same way alcoholism is now....learning disability was talked about the same way and HIV was also talked about the same way.

Calling people "folks" constantly is so irritating and I don't remember cancer or HIV being a prime cause of child neglect and damaged childhoods. Yes, it is an illness in itself but it's not helped in the slightest by wallowing or enabling.

userformally I don't understand your point about cancer, HIV & learning difficulties.

I think user is trying to say it's an illness therefore it cannot be helped or prevented at all nor should addicts take any kind of blame or responsibility for the effects and consequences.

I disagree.

Frankandbeans has put it far more eloquently and calmly than I could.

user, no of course not. Nobody says they want to be an alcoholic anymore than they want to be a smoker or a heroin addict - but they elect and make choices for these drugs. I'm an ex-smoker myself and I know about addiction but I wouldn't dream of referring to my choices in the passive way that addicts often do.

Nobody wants to have cancer or chicken pox either, yet they do have them, these diseases are foisted on people and it's breathtakingly insensitive and completely wrong to describe them as being in the same category as diseases or illnesses arising from elective drug-taking.

I make no distinction for treatment though; people suffering should be treated and helped back to health. That's the society that we live in and I'm glad of it.

fThat makes more sense Graph. I was seeing it things that had shame wrongly attributed and it's quite recent that people do talk about them. It was always 'C, you know ' not so long ago :(

Glad I came across as calm Graphista as I didn't feel it! This thread has got my back right up and I've felt that I should leave it but to be honest the outpouring of other people's life stories so similar to mine has kept me here and made me feel a bit comforted that it wasn't just me with the shitty childhood that has given me so much anxiety around drinking. The downplaying and minimising of children's suffering has got to me though. (Not just OP's but just in general, posts that are enabling and just plain offensive like the one I replied to.)

I see it a lot on these threads where people gain psychic ability and get to say what I am thinking, sometimes I think they need to stop and retune....

Is Cancer a disease of choice? I'm not sure ...certainly diet has something to do with it, not taking precaution in the sun can cause it, smoking can cause it ....as well as a number of other lifestyle factors, would any of you folk on here say to a cancer patient that they caused the disease and have a choice in it?

HIV also a disease of choice? Or hereditary?

Learning difficulties, not of choice, but a lot of which are still not understood.

What I am saying here is that many years ago people believed that these illnesses were actually the fault of the person who had them....the same way people who have issues with alcohol or addiction are being castigated on here.

It is not a moral failing, or evidence of a character flaw, but a chronic disease of the brain that deserves our compassion and care,

What I am saying here is that many years ago people believed that these illnesses were actually the fault of the person who had them....the same way people who have issues with alcohol or addiction are being castigated on here.
Maybe because we've suffered at the hands of these issues. Yes, you don't choose to become an alcoholic but you do have to choose to wallow in it, to not seek help, to not make effort, to deny it's existence and effect on other people. I don't think anyone here has said to the OP "just buck up and stop being an alcoholic", we've tried to give reasonings as to why she shouldn't succumb to the illness. OP is doing the right thing, she is seeking treatment but I think she is also unaware of the effect it will be having on her children which was the point being made by people.

User

I said I think - I wasn't presuming.

Also as many addicts are themselves the children of addicts yes there's learned behaviour, possible genetic component BUT there is also knowledge, self awareness and awareness of the fact that either through learned behaviour or genetics or a combination you are more prone to develop an addiction and therefore take steps to avoid that - which as myself and pps have said some of us do - either by not drinking much or indeed CHOOSING to be completely teetotal, by never even trying street drugs, or cigarettes, being very wary of addictive medications (even if prescribed). All things I have done/continue to do. I've even been clear with my Drs over the years that I come from a family of addicts and prefer to avoid known addictive meds where possible.

Cancer is extremely complex even experts can't agree that even something as well known to be carcinogenic (like cigarettes) isn't the full answer as to why some people get cancer and others don't.

Ditto hiv, even knowingly having unprotected sex or sharing a needle or accepting a blood transfusion that is hiv infected doesn't guarantee the infection is passed on. I also don't know of or know anyone who has knowingly done this and that's why they're hiv positive. In all the cases I know of/know it's been a case of lack of knowledge that the other person/source of infection is a source of infection or even at the extreme end there's been deception on the part of the 'infector'.

As for citing learning disabilities in any way as a comparison to addiction - I don't think it GETS much more offensive!

How many times has she said that she is aware of the fact that this is having an effect on her kids - and how many times has she been told the same thing over and over again by people on this thread - people saying that she doesn't realise when in fact they don't actually know what is going on in this home?

continuing to say the same thing over and over is not going to change the mind of the OP is it?

I asked the question before about how many people on here had counselling due to an alcoholic parent, or how many people had actually studied alcoholism - very few (in fact I don't believe any) said they had counselling because they were affected by being brought up by an alcoholic parent - in magic MN world there can be a few possible conclusions drawn from this

1. No one got counselling because they felt that they didn't need it or

1. There are a lot of people on this thread carrying baggage who didn't do anything about their Mental Health/illness and are either projecting it onto others or doing a job of hiding it

I have said on this thread that OP needs to take action about drinking unfortunately those who are lucky enough never to have been addicted do not understand the power of addiction....it's almost like instinct, and stopping isn't as easy as saying you are going to give up.

These “It is not a moral failing, or evidence of a character flaw, but a chronic disease of the brain that deserves our compassion and care,” are not my words, they are the words of the US Surgeon General, but then maybe he doesn't know anything either

I've read through the entire thread, I've seen it progress. I've wanted to respond I haven't been able too until now.

I actually remember the OP's post, she refers to about her drinking in a park.

That post was about her too, about how unfair it was for her, how awful she couldn't just drink a bottle of wine in a park whilst her children played.

Then a friend of the family came on and begged her to get help

My father was an alcoholic, he didn't have a problem either. He died at 50. My mum had cancer it is not the same.

Alcoholism is an addiction not a disease, and if people who struggle with this addiction put as much effort into getting out of it as they do being in it they will succeed.

Graphista, I'm not citing learning disabilities as a comparison to addiction (although it is believed that due to brain deficiency there may be a correlation) what I am saying I'd LD like addiction is not fully understood.

How many times has she said that she is aware of the fact that this is having an effect on her kids

Because she is 100% sober? I don't think so, she is in her alcoholic denial bubble

OP has on numerous occasions stated that she knows this is having an effect on her kids - you just read the thread, I can't say whether she is sober or not, but she is saying she is sober.

I think that what I am saying is being distorted, there are a lot of people on here who have never experienced addiction personally, there are also a lot of people who appear to think that stopping drinking is just a matter of putting down the bottle, for an addict it isn't that easy. If it were there would be hundreds if not thousands of addiction counsellors out of work.

I think that what I am saying is being distorted, there are a lot of people on here who have never experienced addiction personally, there are also a lot of people who appear to think that stopping drinking is just a matter of putting down the bottle, for an addict it isn't that easy.
Actually the main posters on this thread seem to be the ones with direct contact with addiction. I've seen my entire family fall to it. I know how hard it is, one of my sisters will certainly drink herself to death but not before she drags her daughter with her. It's the sad reality of it.

And to your other question, I spent a long time in family therapy alongside my own therapies because of my family's alcohol dependence. You sound really dismissive and naive.

Nope. I'm back to not understanding and now I'm not understanding how your expoundings on addiction are helpful to the OP.

user she has been quite clear in saying she is not sober

Nobody is sober after half a bottle of wine "to do the school pick up"

Nobody is sober after a litre of vodka

I've read the thread, fully her response of "I know it is having an effect on my kids" comes after someone has said you don't realise the effect this is having on your children, it is usually followed by a sentiment of its not that bad for my gulden because they don't realise

This woman doesn't want help IMO, she wants justification which your giving. She likes being drunk

"As a result of my childhood I've had a lot of counselling (in my case there was a lot of abuse and not just from the drunk) but it's not been focussed on being the child of a drunk." While it wasn't primarily the focus it was certainly discussed in some depth. I've been having counselling over the course of the last 15/16 years.

I've done a LOT of reading/research regarding addiction.

"Actually the main posters on this thread seem to be the ones with direct contact with addiction" - with the best will in the world no scientist, researcher or therapist can ever understand what it's like unless they've been there themselves. Every therapist/psychiatrist/psychologist I've ever seen has said this is the case. You can't appropriate another's experience.

"Folks you do realise that not that many years ago Cancer was talked about the same way alcoholism is now....learning disability was talked about the same way and HIV was also talked about the same way." Comparing addiction to cancer job and LD.

"Glad I came across as calm Graphista as I didn't feel it! This thread has got my back right up" me too.

"Maybe because we've suffered at the hands of these issues. Yes, you don't choose to become an alcoholic but you do have to choose to wallow in it, to not seek help, to not make effort, to deny it's existence and effect on other people." Agree with this too.

"How many times has she said that she is aware of the fact that this is having an effect on her kids" she's also frequently minimised and denied this.

"in magic MN world there can be a few possible conclusions drawn from this

1. No one got counselling because they felt that they didn't need it or

1. There are a lot of people on this thread carrying baggage who didn't do anything about their Mental Health/illness and are either projecting it onto others or doing a job of hiding it"

I find this comment so incredibly presumptive, offensive and hurtful.

Counselling is not easy to access for many reasons for starters. I've been working very hard to improve my mh for several years despite no support beyond lip service from my family and cuts to services having a huge impact. I'm on 2 meds which have horrible side effects for me and frankly at the moment I'm doing well if I get through the day. At various points I've been doing really well and been relatively healthy, only to be knocked back either by unforeseen circumstances or by the 2 addicts in my immediate family. It's a big reason why I'm Nc with them again and for the last time.

And I rather suspect I'm not the only child of an addict on this thread or elsewhere that has had this experience/effect on them.

"She wants justification which your giving. She likes being drunk"

Even the thread title says so.

User doesn't see this though graph

I do because I've been the child of an alcoholic, who didn't have a problem he dropped dead at 50.

He just "enjoyed" having a drink, didn't think I would notice, he didn't have a problem.

Exactly penguins which is why particularly on such a sensitive subject it's a bad idea to speak (write) as if you know the experience when you haven't been through it.

Perhaps Penguins and Graphista you should stop posting now? You're talking about the op as if she isn't here, which is incredibly rude. The point has been made again and again that children are damaged by alcoholic parents so I'm not sure what you are trying to achieve. Be angry with your own parents by all means but hectoring the op is not going to achieve anything. I'm very surprised that you of all people dont appear to understand that.

I wasn't looking for justification, on this or my other thread. I wouldn't have posted if that was the case.

I am getting sober. I know the affect it has on my family. Saturday night was my last drink. I posted because I was drunk and enjoying it and panicking that I'd never be able to stop. It was the end of a week long binge.

I phrased it wrong in the OP when I said i 'usually' drink in the afternoons to get through the school run. I have done last week and I have on a few occasions before but it's not the norm. I know it's awful. It's tied to my MH and I am working hard on better solutions such as taking the dog with me and arranging to walk with my neighbour.

For those saying I don't want to change, I suppose that's why I'm schlepping all over the county on the bus to three different types of therapy and why I've reached out to services for the children as well as myself. I'm not just blindly carrying on.

It's a hard road, but I'm on it, and I'm trying.

OP, just to be clear, I think it's good that you are getting help with your addiction, I don't agree with therapy that isn't abstinence based but that's my opinion, you do what works for you.

A lot of posters on this thread are reacting and projecting their own issues on to you, al anon or similar May address the issues brought up re your DCs - the stuff you have done in the past is still there, you will need to try and make amends fir that, but the best you can do initially is get and stay sober.

This link gives great insight into alcohol and the physical/mental effects of the addiction, there is some AA stuff at the end, ignore it if you want.

At this stage it is most important to say sober today, if you take a drink today you are going to NEED a drink tomorrow.

Don't do this for DC, DH or anyone else do it for you - amends to them should come through sobriety, clear thinking and actions in the future.

I've found Graphista's posts helpful and informative actually and I don't see that it's anybody's business to tell another to stop posting on the thread. That's rude. OP has been joining in the discussions periodically so is reading the thread.

I've found user's posts defensive, belittling and patronising and it's clear that they come from a drinker's viewpoint.

Horses for courses. This thread will engage people from various perspectives and, as OP has children, it is relevant to hear from other children of alcoholics who've grown up with this background.

Grab, I know you're reading this thread and you sound sincere in your wish to stop this once and for all. I know from my own experience with alcoholics that they were determined to stop but for some that determination was just obliterated by the overriding desire and need to drink alcohol. Not all, one family member has been sober for 35 years now. It's clear that it's a hell of a battle but, in my opinion, somebody who tells you to 'do it for yourself' isn't getting it because it's such a horrendous thing that it's only something that you'll do for your children.

I really wish you well and sober.