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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

child pointed toy gun at me

493 replies

morningtoncrescent62 · 03/12/2016 14:14

I know that telling off/not telling off other people's children has been done many times on AIBU. But genuinely not sure whether I was in the wrong here. On the bus this morning, woman got on with two children aged about 5, dressed up, obviously excited about going somewhere. One of the children was dressed as a cowboy, complete with toy gun. I'll admit I hate seeing children playing with guns, but I know not everyone feels the same. They sat behind and across the aisle from me and I was reading a book and trying not to be distracted - they were fairly noisy but not unreasonably so in the circumstances.

A few stops before I was getting off I looked up to find the child with the toy gun pointing it at me and pulling the trigger repeatedly. The woman hadn't seen as she was rootling about in her bag. So I said to the child, not sharply but firmly, 'Please don't point your gun at me, it isn't very nice'. The woman looked up and apologised. Then she took the child on her lap for a cuddle and started a loud conversation with the other one about how adults sometimes talk to children instead of the adult who is with them and this is bad and wrong. Which is OK if it's her position, but nothing at all about how sometimes when you point guns at people and pretend to shoot them they don't like it and they ask you not to. I was tempted to say to her that if her child was too young to be asked by strangers not to point his toy gun at them, then he was too young to be allowed to play with it in a public place - but I was about to get off the bus so I didn't.

So, MN jury, WIBU to speak directly to the child?

OP posts:
DoinItFine · 03/12/2016 17:23

Oh yes, his mother's crappy parenting is most likely to win out over polite words from strangers.

And so he is likely to be an insufferable shite when he's older and has learnt that passive aggression is acceptable and annoying other people is joyful.

But I'm glad there are people like the OP out there who will treat my children like people worth talking to and teach them things I've missed.

WaitrosePigeon · 03/12/2016 17:24

I do not allow guns in my house. I wouldn't be happy either.

At least she apologised.

DoinItFine · 03/12/2016 17:24

It's not really very nice to point at people.

Most 5 year olds should know that.

Hardly controversial.

mrscarrotironfoundersson · 03/12/2016 17:27

Professionally Offended. Nobody makes a living from finding certain things offensive do they?

No, some people enjoy it as a voluntary role for society.

natwebb79 · 03/12/2016 17:27

Doinitfine - have you had quite a sheltered life where any child allowed to have fun role playing when young automatically becomes a hardened criminal as an adult? Crap parenting my arse.

DoinItFine · 03/12/2016 17:28

You can certainly make quite a good living by being professionally offensive.

So maybe we need more people getting paid to be offended by them?

BratFarrarsPony · 03/12/2016 17:30

right OK then Mrs Carrot, in that case I suggest you look up the meaning of 'professional' before you trot out your silly phrase again...:)

RedMapleLeaf · 03/12/2016 17:30

I was brought up with real guns in the house, and we knew from a very early age never to point a gun at someone. I know it's the not the same thing as a toy gun, but thinking about we never had them in the house.

Original poster
morningtoncrescent62 · 03/12/2016 17:31

OK, so as I said, I genuinely wanted views, and thank you to everyone who's replied. Nobody's convinced me that I shouldn't have spoken to the child, but a few people have said things along these lines:

OP, you could have asked nicely rather than 'firmly'. You could also have made it about you (which it is) by smiling and saying, "You know, it makes me feel really uncomfortable when people point guns at me." If he carried on, then the firm comment comes in. However, you were basically saying his behaviour is not very nice, which isn't true. It is not very nice to do it at someone who is uncomfortable, not that it is not very nice per se.

I agree with you, and on reflection, that's the sort of thing I should have said. I'll remember if I'm in a similar situation again.

OP posts:
Suppermummy02 · 03/12/2016 17:31

So we now have to teach 5 year old children about the professionally offended and how to protect themselves from their prejudices?

Do you think a young child would be confident enough to stand up to a grown man and say, "You are entitled to your own opinion but I am not doing anything wrong, so get lost".

Oh for the good old days when adults were polite and 5yo children were allowed to play and have fun.

Mynestisfullofempty · 03/12/2016 17:34

OP he was pointed a TOY at you! Why give it any thought? Just carry on reading your book. It's too sodding trivial!

DoinItFine · 03/12/2016 17:37

have you had quite a sheltered life where any child allowed to have fun role playing when young automatically becomes a hardened criminal as an adult?

It must be hard for you to interact in a medium that requires reading comprehension skills.

1 I have never objected to role playing by this, or any, child.

  1. I have not suggested that this, or any, child will become a hardened criminal. Although some will.
  1. Neither have I suggested that children become things "automatically". Or that there is a causal relationship between childhood play and criminality. (Those two things are quite different. You should figure out what yiu want to say before you say things that are self-contradictory.)

Crap parenting my arse.

Maybe passive aggression will become more socially acceptable by the time the child is reared.

But it's a bit of a risk to bring a child uo to be passive aggressive given how it's perceived today.

booklooker · 03/12/2016 17:38

I was brought up with real guns in the house,

That is an interesting point, I think for most people in the UK guns are not a part of their reality (thank heavens for that)

But attitudes towards toy guns could be vey different in a socety where they are a day to day normal occurance.

demonchilde · 03/12/2016 17:39

I was never keen on toy guns, and my DS's were banned from owning or playing with them. Eldest DS is now in the Marines. I didn't get any stick at all from the family at his passing out parade where he was swinging an SA80 assault rifle around...(DS (in my voice, loudly) - Mummy's saying put that down immediately!- the bastards :D) The younger ones play with what they like now.

But yeah, I see why you maybe wouldn't like it, but I think maybe it depends on how you said it to him? I don't think it's right on the whole to tell other people's kids off when the parents are present, BUT I have been known to very ocassionally in the past, but only after first having a word with the parents, only for them to do fuck all.

But in this instance, I'm not sure if it's reasonable to expect the Mum to assume that this, from a 5 year old in a cowboy outfit, is going to annoy most people. Then again, I doubt you asking the Mum to ask him to stop doing it would have gone down too well either. The convo she had with him about how it was wrong for you to tell him of would have annoyed me too- it sounds confrontational and unecessary, and she would have been better off explaining to him that it was OK for you to not like it, and a reason not to do it to you again. Then again, IF she thought you sounded arsey at him, she would have been defensive, that's only natural.

I think context matters here though- a 5 year old cowboy with a gun wouldn't bother me, but two twelve year olds following me with one would be told where to shove it, regardless of where I was from

mrscarrotironfoundersson · 03/12/2016 17:40

Oxford English Dictionary:

Worthy of or appropriate to a professional person; competent, skilful, or assured:
‘his professional expertise’
‘their music is both memorable and professional’

I'll accept it can apply to both paid and unpaid work. I'm pretty sure you didn't mean to offend volunteers who behave professionally.

TeapotDictator · 03/12/2016 17:41

I do think you slightly over-reacted, however I love the fact that her response to you talking to her child was to talk to the child herself saying that it's really bad to say things to children rather than directly to the adult. Which is precisely what she was doing, using her child as a go-between to enable her to be passive aggressive.

So in essence, you over-reacted a bit, but her reaction was pathetic.

Memoires · 03/12/2016 17:42

Well, I'd have shot him with my fingers. I disagree with the woman's position anyway, if you don't want your children to be told off/told to stop annoying them by other people, then you have your beady little eyes on them at all times, or never take them out in public, never ever.

DoinItFine · 03/12/2016 17:43

But attitudes towards toy guns could be vey different in a socety where they are a day to day normal occurance.

Like people from certain parts of London, middle aged people raised in Northern Ireland (where the police are still routinely armed), a high proportion of refugees.

There are lots of reason why people might prefer not to have a toy gun pointed at their head.

Do you think a young child would be confident enough to stand up to a grown man and say, "You are entitled to your own opinion but I am not doing anything wrong, so get lost".

Let's hope not.

That response would be very bratty.

booklooker · 03/12/2016 17:46

Maybe passive aggression will become more socially acceptable by the time the child is reared.

I remembe a thread on here many moons ago asking people what the term 'passive aggressive' meant to them.

There was a huge diversity in the responses, though it is a phrase commonly used as if everyone has the same understanding of what is meant.

They don't

WeDoNotSow · 03/12/2016 17:46

Some people are so desperate to be seen to do the 'right thing' that they will chastise their kids after any stranger says anything.
It's ok to make your kids aware and appreciate other people's feelings, but you also need to make sure they're not doormats, who can't stand up for tgemselves either.

Basicbrown · 03/12/2016 17:48

Yanbu, what's wrong with politely asking someone not to do something, child or adult? Such an utterly bizarre world we live in.

WeDoNotSow · 03/12/2016 17:49

Basic she didn't 'politely' ask someone to 'not do something' though, did she?
She 'firmly' told a child his playing 'wasn't nice'

There's a big difference

JellyBelli · 03/12/2016 17:51

My lot not only had a selection of toy guns, they had those fake knives on a spring that go back into the handle. With fake blood on the handle. Most of our PC 'friends' blanked me over the guns.

You give a kid a toy gun, they get a feeling of power and control. Then the game ends and they put it down. I dont think its an entirely negative experience for them. None of them played pretend rape, or ended up robbing banks.

DoinItFine · 03/12/2016 17:51

Stopping pointing a toy gun at someone when asked is hardly being a doormat.

Speaking to a child when you are really addressing an adult is textbook passive aggressive.

bumsexatthebingo · 03/12/2016 17:54

I think you should have said nothing op. It was a little kid dressed as a cowboy - not remotely intimidating. As for whether the mum was unreasonable. It depends on whether she was speaking for your benefit or to comfort her child because you scared him.