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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

child pointed toy gun at me

493 replies

morningtoncrescent62 · 03/12/2016 14:14

I know that telling off/not telling off other people's children has been done many times on AIBU. But genuinely not sure whether I was in the wrong here. On the bus this morning, woman got on with two children aged about 5, dressed up, obviously excited about going somewhere. One of the children was dressed as a cowboy, complete with toy gun. I'll admit I hate seeing children playing with guns, but I know not everyone feels the same. They sat behind and across the aisle from me and I was reading a book and trying not to be distracted - they were fairly noisy but not unreasonably so in the circumstances.

A few stops before I was getting off I looked up to find the child with the toy gun pointing it at me and pulling the trigger repeatedly. The woman hadn't seen as she was rootling about in her bag. So I said to the child, not sharply but firmly, 'Please don't point your gun at me, it isn't very nice'. The woman looked up and apologised. Then she took the child on her lap for a cuddle and started a loud conversation with the other one about how adults sometimes talk to children instead of the adult who is with them and this is bad and wrong. Which is OK if it's her position, but nothing at all about how sometimes when you point guns at people and pretend to shoot them they don't like it and they ask you not to. I was tempted to say to her that if her child was too young to be asked by strangers not to point his toy gun at them, then he was too young to be allowed to play with it in a public place - but I was about to get off the bus so I didn't.

So, MN jury, WIBU to speak directly to the child?

OP posts:
IcedVanillaLatte · 03/12/2016 15:29

Dunno why people are mentioning "chastisement" and "telling off". It wasn't either; it was a polite request.

You taking exception to it doesn't actually mean they've done anything wrong so no, you shouldn't have assumed you had the authority to tell the child what to do just because you're an adult.

She wasn't telling the child what to do. She was making a polite request that someone not involve her in their game. There are lots of things someone might take exception to that aren't exactly wrong i.e. against the rules, but which they might request the person stop doing; cf. millions of threads on other adults behaving in ways the OP doesn't like on public transport.

ItsALLAboutMeMeMeMeME · 03/12/2016 15:35

SenecaFalls, I'm in the USA too and it's different here where many families have firearms in the home. The vast majority of responsible gun-owning families would have already taught their children about not pointing firearms pretend or otherwise and, most likely, would not allow their kids to take their toy guns out in public anyway, far too much potential for fatal misunderstandings.

There is no equivalent gun-owning culture in the UK and therefore no equivalent awareness of appropriate gun handling practices. Again, given this scenario, given it was in the UK and not Detroit, MI, the OP, IMO, was being unreasonable.

Wolverbamptonwanderer · 03/12/2016 15:39

If an adult is distressed by a child dressed as a cowboy pointing a toy gun at them, they need to give their head a waggle. That's pretty pathetic

GahBuggerit · 03/12/2016 15:39

people are mentioning telling off as its in the opening line of the op Grinplus the comment regarding "firmly". bit unnecessary towards a 5 year old in this situation.

Suppermummy02 · 03/12/2016 15:39

Plenty of people abhor guns and toy guns. But plenty of people abhor guns and don't have a problem with plastic children's cowboy guns. Then are perfectly legal in this country. So your directing your personal opinions/prejudices towards a child.

Would it be acceptable for a vegetarian to firmly, berate a child eating a burger in public. Or a feminist berating a girl playing with a pink Barbie.

The child wasn't doing anything wrong so, you just have a personal preference, so you DO owe the child an apology.

MissVictoria · 03/12/2016 15:40

A few weeks ago i would have said it's just a kid playing, YABU.
BUT, as someone with a friend who now has severe PTSD after being held up in an armed robbery who barely makes it out of the house most days, my stance now is that it isn't socially acceptable.
If she had a toy gun pulled on her, regardless if it was a toddler, she'd have a full blown panic attack, flashbacks etc. I know we can't all be prepared for every possible triggering situation to avoid them, but toy versions of weapons (guns, knives etc) should be left at home.

DoinItFine · 03/12/2016 15:41

If an adult is distressed by a child dressed as a cowboy pointing a toy gun at them, they need to give their head a waggle. That's pretty pathetic

No more pathetic than a school-age child so fragile that adults are not allowed to address him.

Happyoutlook · 03/12/2016 15:43

Itsallaboutme I agree with you we are in ME, we have our Concealed Carry and carry on a daily basis. (Getting DW a concealed carry handbag for Christmas). Every child in our wider family is taught at a early age.

Over here a gun is considered a tool

DoinItFine · 03/12/2016 15:43

And nobody owes anybody an apology for asking them not to point a gun at them, toy or not.

People are allowed to ask people not to do things that bother them.

IcedVanillaLatte · 03/12/2016 15:44

people are mentioning telling off as its in the opening line of the op Grin

I know it is, in reference to other threads that have been posted on MN (preempting the "oh not this again" posts). But reading the OP's description of what (she says) actually happened, then it's not really a telling-off.

natwebb79 · 03/12/2016 15:44

The poor kid was just role playing at being a cowboy! I very much doubt that this will lead to a life of gun crime for him. I too would have played along and giggled. In my experience if you don't allow toy weapons they just use a stick any way. They're too young to link it with actual killing.

mrscarrotironfoundersson · 03/12/2016 15:45

My goodness, lets ban all children from playing in public places, that includes costumes when on public transport, in fact, lets just ban children altogether.

OP, yabu, but you know this or you wouldn't have doubted yourself enough to start this thread.

I like the parents response too, did you want her to request a duel at the next stop? I mean, she's got a TOY gun and you ain't!

natwebb79 · 03/12/2016 15:46

And Doinitfine school age or not 5 years old is still very little and it could have ruined his fun. It's a bit joyless.

FlappysMammyAndPopeInExile · 03/12/2016 15:52

I've done comedy dead before when children have "shot" me.

I think you're over-reacting, but I also think that if she had a problem with you speaking to your chid she should have politely told YOU and not got all passive-aggressive. (Pity you didn't have someone with you that you could have a conversation with about people talking to a third party rather than speaking to the person they aren't happy with.) That would have annoyed me more than the child, TBH.

I didn't know that cowboys were a "thing" again.

MissVictoria · 03/12/2016 15:52

Half the problem is that toy weapons are being made to look more and more realistic. Obviously you can tell when a machine gun is a toy, but some pistol/revolver types can look scarily real.
There are plenty of other costumes the kids can dress up in for going out places, or the parent could keep hold of the toy gun til they get to destination if they're off to a party.
Pretty sure a few years ago a couple of adults got arrested in the town centre near where i live for having dressed up as army for fancy dress and having toy guns because they could be mistaken for being real. I was under the impression toy guns were actually now banned for adult fancy dress for this reason, it definitely was here that year.

Wolverbamptonwanderer · 03/12/2016 15:53

"Today 15:41 DoinItFine

If an adult is distressed by a child dressed as a cowboy pointing a toy gun at them, they need to give their head a waggle. That's pretty pathetic

No more pathetic than a school-age child so fragile that adults are not allowed to address him."

Agreed that's pathetic too

Eolian · 03/12/2016 15:53

I'm not sure that it's actually reasonable to expect a child's parents to anticipate every possible cause of trauma, anxiety or PTSD in strangers when they are choosing toys for their child tbh. For example lots of people are frightened of dogs. Some may have been bitten. Probably far more common than people who have been threatened with guns. But I doubt people would expect toy dogs to be banned. I think YABU, but then my son has a cupboard full of toy weapons. And plays computer games which involve shooting and fighting baddies. I do not for one minute believe this will lead to him beung a violent person.

catkind · 03/12/2016 15:53

That's telling off? I've always been quite sympathetic to the "don't tell off my child in my presence" point of view, but if that's telling off I may have to revise my position. In my book that's just a polite request to let the child know that what they're doing is bothering you. I wouldn't direct that to the parent any more than I'd say "excuse me please" to the parent if I wanted the child to move out of my path.

As to whether it's normal play, I'd say it's a bit like swearing - if you choose to allow them to swear at each other and you that's your decision, but I'm not having them swear at me. Or point toy guns at me.

Wolverbamptonwanderer · 03/12/2016 15:53

Yes adults with toy guns in public is a different matter altogether

MerryMarigold · 03/12/2016 15:53

I think you were both being unreasonable.

As the mum, if you'd said that to my child, I would have spoken to the child and said some people don't like it so it's probably best to only do it with your friends or people you know. It's always appropriate to teach consideration for others.

However, you were making a big deal out of nothing.

DoinItFine · 03/12/2016 15:55

If his fun is upsetting someone else on public transport, then it needs to be ruined.

That's life in the big bad world that doesn't revolve around you.

You think playing with toy weapons is "joyful". Others find it upsetting, or potentially triggering.

And all of these people have to get along well enough to share space.

So if one person does something to another that they don't like (points a gun at them), then they might be asked to stop.

No big drama. No big deal.

"Please don't do that, I don't like it."

That's it.

There is no reason for the child to be upset or stop playing his game. Just stop pointing his gun at other people who are not in the game.

Good lesson to learn at 5.

Before you become a 12 year old yob chasing and intimidating a woman with a replica gun for shits and giggles.

Diemfdie · 03/12/2016 15:55

DailyCRAP ... if you dressed up as a cowboy in the first place, maybe you would become involved in more fraccas (fraccasss?)

Graphista · 03/12/2016 15:57

Seems to me you have a moral objection to toy guns and want to impose that on others.

You're entitled to an opinion but not to impose it on others. Certainly not a 5 yr old who's just having fun.

Just as an aside my ex sil banned all toy guns for her sons including water pistols, they just used sticks or fingers instead.

EmpressoftheMundane · 03/12/2016 15:57

I think you were being a pit precious. It is a small child, pretending to be a cowboy.

GahBuggerit · 03/12/2016 15:59

op "firmly" spoke to the kid. a 5 year old shd thinks. it wasnt the 4th or 5th time of asking, no need for "firmly" anything in this instance.

op mdntions tdlling off as, imo, this is closer to that than a polite request. of a small child.

if this happened to my 5 yo hed be incredibly confused and upset so i too would let him know that its ok, without having to speak directly to someone who has a go at a 5 yo and then watches what unfolds behind them......

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