To think the nativity play is a waste of time...

[PointyJat]

And the biggest parts are given to teachers favourites/those with pushy parents?

Ds is in year R and they've spent weeks preparing. He and his friend say they spend lots of time sitting in the hall watching the main parts 'practice'. Teacher has cancelled PE since half term for this 'practice'.

Only a few children have a big part, the rest are varying levels of nothing ds is a 'villager' but doesn't even go on stage, he just sings the songs along with all of the others.

Nativity seems like a waste of time and a lot of waiting about, other than for a minority of pupils. I'd rather either all children got a part with a similar level of input, or they just stopped bothering with the play and did PE as usual. Aibu (and grumpy).

Yes

My DC are at Welsh medium school and the Xmas shows are one of the best ways to develop their language skills.

How?

By using vocabulary they wouldn't ordinarily use, lots of songs, discussion about different stories etc.........

Surely Nativity is the epitimy of Christmas? YABU.

epitimy

As that's a completely made up word, yes, it is.

If you meant epitome, then no, not really.

If you can't make spelling errors at past midnight, when can you?

Mind, I may be over-invested here- I forgot how to spell amethyst and schism last week and I ended up googling them. The shame.

Tara. I keep forgetting how to spell simple words! I suspect a form of dementia..

Meh. Lots of what they do in primary is a waste of time tbh.

Oh this thread is making me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

Definitely not down to the parents. My ds has had speaking parts twice.
Both of my Dd's have had no speaking parts yet.

Dd2 was incredibly shy in nursery. All of the other children either had one line or sang together in small groups on the stage. Dd's part was to shake bells during one song She had to lift them from under her chair at the right point, shake them, and then return them under the chair. She was a bit miffed but I just told her she must be the only child that the teacher trusted to not mess about with them I totally could see why she didn't get a speaking part. After Christmas she really came out of herself so I imagine it would have been different had it been later in the year.

Sorry just to add, I do get annoyed at how frequently PE is cancelled, seems to be for any excuse. I don't like that it seems to be treated as a wee treat instead of a key part of the curriculum.

I'm obviously doing something wrong
I'm on the ptfa and will be helping at every performance except the one evening KS2 play that I will be watching. Neither of our DC's have a main part - DC2 is only on stage for 5 minutes! She is however at the front of the stage for those 5 minutes, maybe she should be made to wear a 'my mum is in the ptfa' T shirt and relegated to the back?

YABU

Also, i'm on the pta (work, no range, not rich) ds is 2nd shepherd and dd is in the chorus, obviously i'm not being appreciated and must now go stamp feet and paddy.

As a teacher l have no idea who is on the parents association as it changes every two years here and l have lost count years ago. In our school we find the children who access special needs often end up with the main parts. I think it's because children with dyspraxia or dyslexia seem to have a natural way on stage. I do not know if others have found the same. My ds is dyslexic. He struggled so much in school but come the Christmas play and other plays he brought the house down. He just completely let go and was amazing. If that school hadn't bothered he would have missed his moment to shine after having never got a spelling test completely right in his life. I can 100 percent guarantee there is no favouritism in our place. One colleague has 3 children in the school but they are so shy that they really hang back and want to be in the background. I love how it's the unexpected ones who pop up every year and shine. Memories are made of that.

Within my preschool two of the kings are children of committee members (one being the son of the head of the committee). One of the children are super confident so that's not an issue but the other I can't picture wanting that role. He's strong willed and shy.

When I think of the HOURS we spent doctoring scripts so all children who wanted some lines to say actually GOT some lines to say....

YABU.

junebirthdaygirl you've made me wonder. My favourite nativity memory is of one lad in year 2 who showed dyslexic tendencies with illiterate parents, one of those children who were lovely but always seemed to get himself into trouble. He was wonderful in the main part -lots of lines and Real Acting to do - and sang a solo too.

I agree with most that I don't really care what part DD gets but I do remember last year that the Joseph in the Year 2 play was the brother of the Mary in the Reception one. I did think that was a bit unfair, as there are 89 other kids in each year to choose from.

Randomdent l have seen it in quite a few children over the years.
I don't know why people consider Mary to be a leading role in reception as in our school poor Mary gets little to say as she is completely outshone by a narrator or some angel who is the focus that year or a star who plays a big part. And we do find some families just have louder clearer voices just as some families have all the goal scorers.
Genuinely in all my years and there are a lot l see teachers trying to be fair. But in as much as you put the best footballer on or the one with the general knowledge onto the quiz teams you do play to the strengths of the children. Any teacher taking it on should be encouraged not accused of favouritism or such.

Quite a lot I want to say here.

I was one of the not-chosen ones, despite being a good clear speaker and fairly bright. And desperate to do it! It knocked my confidence every year and has had a long term negative effect in my adult life. I'd love to think what jobs and opportunities there might be for me now if I wasn't scared of public speaking simply through a lack of practice at the right point in my development. (And I wasn't scared of it at all as a child, btw).

It breaks my heart now to see my bright bubbly confident DS getting similarly overlooked. He's gutted not to have any lines (I've not made a thing of it btw. He just keeps telling me how many lines the others have and saying 'I don't have any lines, I have zero lines').

It beats me why the school is not able to pick a play that would give each child a little something to say or sing.

It also seems now on MN it's a crime to criticise teachers in any way shape or form. Well sorry they don't have special protection against criticism, like any other profession some teachers are good (and wouldn't dream of playing favourites), others bloody well do!

At DS's school I was a bit shocked in week 3 I think (he's just started this autumn) to hear one of the TAs telling a parent that her little girl had misbehaved (hitting I think, not sure) and she said loud enough for me to hear that she was surprised at the behaviour because this girl 'is normally so good, she's normally my special girl'. WTF is it OK for any child to be publicly described as such??!! (Oh yes, and said girl is now playing Mary. Hey ho.)

I absolutely love the nativity, it's a completely beautiful story and so lovely to see (I want to make/get my lads a nativity toy or scene this year at home too). However to PP saying the nativity is the only time children are aware of the true meaning of Christmas, soorrreee. I am going to throw down that bunfight right here because Christmas is a key part of our pagan past. The early Christians tasked with spreading their new religion and converting the British Isles chose the date of the pagan celebration deliberately in order to persuade more pagans to join the new religion. It's now a glorious mixture of Christian, Pagan, secular, Victorian and capitalist influences. But it still celebrates the same thing it always has (in my eyes): lighting a candle in the dark, proving that we humans can triumph over the cold bitter end of the year and still have light, comfort, warmth and joy. The victory of life over death and the miracle that must have seemed to our early ancestors. So stick up a tree (pagan), watch a nativity (Christian), buy some chocolates (capitalist), send some cards (Victorian) and enjoy the wonderful melting pot that Christmas really is. 'True meaning', pfffft.

And yes yes yes to PP who have labelled the 'oh they have to pick the best and most confident speakers' as disablist. It is, actually. Lots of children have speech and language needs and have every right to be in the play as much as any other child. At 4/5 years we can still model an ideal world to them and IMO it should be fair, kind and encouraging. Not a precursor to their RADA audition.

I'm afraid I can't agree with most of your points monkey.

I don't think school should be a model of an ideal world where everyone is treated equal and nobody is allowed to shine more than others. If children who sing beautifully can't show off with a solo, if the fastest runner is not allowed to win at sports day, if the best artist can't have their work displayed on the wall, if the best writer can't have their story published in the school magazine etc. then school would be a very different place. What would be teaching our children about life. We should celebrate children's talents and encourage them all to make the best of their skills. But treating everyone as if they are equally talented is not the way to do that, and will not help them now or in the future.

It isn't disablist to pick a good speaker to speak, just as it isn't disablist to pick a good singer to sing, or good pianist to play the piano. It's about picking the best person for the task in hand. In the adult world you wouldn't employ a person with a bad stutter to be a newsreader, this isn't disablist, it's about suitability.

In my experience, the ability differences between children in any given year group are vast. Our year 2 class perform a nativity every year and every child is encouraged to have some speaking part. Last year I watched a little boy, age 7 who can remember a whole script, deliver it with expression and timing, show awareness of the audience and adapt accordingly, sing in tune and dance and be able to help his friends remember too. Other children in the same class can't remember their one line or when to say it, can't remember the words to the songs and unless directed by an adult can't remember where to even stand on the stage. Of course most are somewhere in between. You may think your child is the most bubbly confident child and deserves a great part, but just maybe the teacher has other children who are more suitable. You will see your child as the star because they are yours, but others will see them differently. The teacher's in my experience know their classes quite well as they spend all day every day with them and dish out roles to kids they feel best suited, after all, they want the play to go well. It's not about favourites. Imagine the criticism if able and confident children were sat on the back row while the main roles were fulfilled by children who just couldn't perform. Imagine the crying Mary, the silent Joseph, the whispering Angel Gabriel, the Kings who refuse to get on stage, the donkey just shouting out swear words and running round! Teachers would get it in the neck then!

And to blame your career failings on not being chosen to speak for infant school plays? . Maybe there is a reason you weren't chosen? I wasn't chosen either because there were other kids more suitable in my class who were very confident. It hasn't stopped me, I just practised and surprised everyone at Secondary school. I can speak to an audience and now, get over it!

Fresta I am very glad my ds is not at your school. He would never have his art work on the wall, would never be in sports day, never have the opportunity to stand in stage, never have his stories printed, and generally be made to feel pretty rubbish. Yes it is disablist not to make reasonable adjustment to include him in school and make him feel a worthwhile and valued member of the school community.

Fresta the point is that school isn't comparable to work in this instance because work is about employing someone with those talents while school should be about developing those talents.

When I think of the HOURS we spent doctoring scripts so all children who wanted some lines to say actually GOT some lines to say....

That is the truth of it. Otherwise send your child to a small rural school then everyone has to have a speaking part.

derxa and sukey I would really really appreciate that - but that isn't what happens at my DDs school -or by the sound of things lots of others..
If it was I wouldn't have a complaint - I don't want a star - I want a child who gets the opportunity to speak when she wants to, do something more than be in the chorus - of course there will be bigger parts but a small part for everyone who wants one isn't a lot to ask...
A couple of years ago our school did a show - a play - which had one main part. The child who played that part was on the stage for the whole play -and they were very good -had a real talent, lots of lines and knew them all. Quite a few 'thinking aloud' - speaking to the audience. I was impressed. BUT out of the 90 children in that show that meant less than 10 had a speaking part of a few lines -mainly speaking to main character. Maybe another 10 had one line and maybe 20 got to be part of a dance/act on the stage. Remaining 50 were on the side - singing the songs. To me that was an incredibly bad choice for a school Christmas play - if you want to be inclusive.