AIBU to be horrified by the Stolen Children of England

[LivingOnTheDancefloor]

I just watched a French documentary called "England's stolen children" and can't believe this is happening in England. Horrifying, scary, unbelievable, it is like a horror movie...

Basically, social services are taking babies from their parents based on suspicion that abuse might happen in the future, except that the decision is made based on ridiculous things.
A lady had her three children taken from her, including a breastfed baby because she went to the ER for a child's broken ankle and they judged that he must have been beaten by his parents (only based on the ankle). X years later the parents manage to prove the fracture was due to scorbut. And they found out the initial report from the ER says "no sign of fracture".
The judge admitted they shouldn't have taken the children and the parents were innocents. But the children were given to adoption so the parents will never see them again.
That is just one of the stories.
Some women are told while pregnant that their newborn will be taken as soon as he arrives (and thzney do it).
The documentary says it is due to the facts that counties have to reach a number of children given to adoption so they target poor/uneducated parents and find any reason to take their children.
And as fostering costs money to the state they prefer adoption.

AIBU to ask if you heard about it here in the UK? And if yes, what do you think? Could it be true or are they exagerating?

I am really shaken.

www.google.fr/amp/s/researchingreform.net/2016/11/14/englands-stolen-children-controversial-new-documentary-on-forced-adoption/amp/?client=safari

Sorry, no idea how to post links, and I am on my phone

oh come on brasty to prevent a child getting scurvy you would only have to toss him an orange from time to time. feeding is the bare minimum.

The child who was only fed on bread and jam and got scurvy, was fed. But it is an extreme diet. And any parent who thought this was okay, would have other issues I am sure with parenting.
I exclude from that children with SN who have extreme diets, as any normal parent would seek medical help.

I wonder if an extreme case of coeliac disease could cause scurvy? As it inhibits vitamin and mineral absorption. Wonder if it could inhibit it enough to lower vit C absorption so much to lead to scurvy. But I suppose by that point nutrition would be so limited in its absorption that they would have other symptoms showing a lot earlier.

Surely it would be obvious the child was ill because of the coeliac disease? And any normal parent would have taken the child to the GP.

It can natsku as can any other illness that prevents decent absorption of food, illnesses that cause sickness or behavioural problems that exhibit with puking along with eating disorders a fair few kids with ASD and other issues could also be more likely to get it due to controlling nature of diets and the ability to starve themselves rather than eat what others want them to.

In the time that all these kids obtain a dx for the issue they have they still have the issue just nobody knows they do sometimes it can take years to get a dx

It's not as simple as inadequate parenting causing scurvy. I've known plenty of children who have rarely eaten fruit and vegetables and plenty of grown adults too for that matter. My war-baby parents are still going in their late seventies and they were raised on sugar sandwiches with any fresh produce having all the goodness boiled the fuck out of it and the water tipped away. Orange for Christmas, that sort of thing.

The Websters had three children removed because they followed medical advice from their G.P regarding a soya milk diet for one DC who was vulnerable to this unusual condition and by the time they were vindicated the children had been adopted.

Similarly, Roy Meadow argued that sudden infant death was not hereditary and Sally Clark likely killed her children - with a misuse of statistics, She died as a result of this miscarriage of justice.

Mistakes do happen.

Yes, mistakes do happen and as I was asking earlier, where do these families go if all the professional agencies turn a blind eye, whether mistakes or done purposefully? Spero kindly tried to reassure me upthread but I am personally hearing some parents say they are too afraid to request medical, social care help, etc.

haystack - I think all any parent can do is weigh up what they think is best for their children and act accordingly. As a pp said upthread, I find it hard to conceive of a situation where the best thing for my sick DC would be to take them on the run overseas, where the doctors had no access to their previous medical history and we had to live below the radar with minimal contact with the rest of our family still in the UK in case the authorities found us and tried to force us to return. How can that ever be the answer to "what is best for my children?"

It's true. I know a family whose kids were taken on absolute outright lies, no actual solid evidence at all, all hearsay and in fact huge proof that it was all lies. Now SS are trying to backtrack now the SW &a her manager has been sacked but it's too late, they lost their kids and nothing can undo that damage to all involved now. It's an incredibly flawed and corrupt system.

And this is what concerns me All Part, we seem to be hearing more of these type of cases. My own children are young adults now and I don't want them to be too afraid (if they have children) to go for medical help.I'm so angry, I haven't borne and raised children to watch them live under oppression.l was once with a friend who was trying to show a family lawyer good, strong documented evidence that the SS reports were untrue and that the start of the case, the risk assessment was actually against the legal rights of the child. Only to be told quite forcefully that we need to understand that even if my friend had 100% evidence of this, she still couldn't win.Following this more twists and lies were added, even under the noses of the childrens guardian and solicitor. Other children were even being physically harmed because of the actions of the authorities (can't explain on here) but no-one did anything. This was before Baby P and the first time i'd ever witnessed true oppression, didn't think it was possible in this country and my friends family never got over it. Some mnetters ask for evidence but as everyone knows, it can't be brought out into the open.

Haystack I won't take my kids to the GP or A&E without it being something really serious and urgent and preferably something I've got witnesses to. I really want to homeschool my youngest because I don't want a school to be able to make false reports as happened with the family I mentioned. If I'm honest I'm petrified and live in constant fear 24:7 that someone will knock on my door or make a report if she has a tantrum when we're out. I'm obsessively cleaning the house all the time in case someone comes round here to the extent it affects our day to day lives and affects my parenting, and fear of these child snatcher bastards actually makes me a far worse parent than I would be without that constant threat. Seeing how it all happened and how disgustingly corrupt it all was has terrified the living daylights out of me and if I could leave the country I would. Unfortunately my ex would never allow it because of the kids. Luckily he has a foreign wife now and I'm really hoping she pressurises him to move back to her home country when they start a family, I'd follow in a heartbeat.

All Part, you do realise that in a few hours people are going to start coming on here and calling us bonkers I'm so sorry to hear that you live in fear, it's so crap nowadays and people can't believe it until they see it for themselves. I actually saw the change in SS round about 2002/3. I used to receive help due to illnesses and I noticed they were changing from support to more of a child protection stance. Young, new social workers straight from Uni were coming in with a seemingly different agenda. I'm not a conspiracy theorist but definitely something has changed. There must be something wrong when parents are fleeing the country and when assessed abroad they are allowed to keep their children. Anyway, try not to worry too much and good luck to you and your family.

I won't take my kids to the GP or A&E without it being something really serious and urgent and preferably something I've got witnesses to.

Then you are being neglectful. FFS.

If you are a worse parent because of "child-snatchers" that is on you. Not social services.

The thing is people keep saying the same old tired nonsense "there's no smoke without fire, they don't take them without evidence, they need a court order, there's a huge threshold to reach..." You know what all that boils down to? One, maybe 2 people who have the same story. In the case I am thinking of it was a school head who just literally made stuff up. There was absolutely no basis in reality whatsoever, complete and total fabrication. School told the SW, SW put it in her report to the guardian and psychologist, they believed it, all parties spoke to the parents and asked "is this true?", parents obviously said no, response was that they're refusing to acknowledge the issues, refusing to work with professionals, can't improve if they don't acknowledge it, overly emotional, possible mental health issues to be so emotional, significant risk of future possible harm. They could win! If they admitted to these false allegations then they'd lose the children and a lot more besides, but if they didn't admit it because it wasn't true (and I KNOW it wasn't true) then they're not engaging with the plan or admitting their issues and working on them! How can a parent NOT be emotional when someone is threatening to take their children and with such lies?? Emotion is not necessarily aggression, it's perfectly proportionate in that situation but they wanted stoicism. I'd be FAR more concerned about stoic parents in those circumstances than emotional ones! It's a private family court and they tried desperately to get witnesses in and were told no, in fact the more they tried to prove their innocence the more guilty they were accused of being. The head was extremely powerful and knew it and abused that power, there was no way anyone was going to believe the parents over the school and the SW & guardian. The new SS staff know it was wrong and want to reverse it but can't now. They've said off the record they know it was wrong and are sorry but that doesn't give this family their lives back, these people have been destroyed. They've had another child since and what a surprise the new child is still with them, no concerns whatsoever, no involvement past the standard initial checks because of previous history, but the curtain twitchers around are still saying they must have abused the other kids to lose them. They can't answer when you ask them why have they left a tiny vulnerable baby with them with no concerns though. Logic can't be allowed to disrupt cognitive dissonance. But the new baby doesn't make up for the children they had stolen from them, nothing ever will and all their lives will never be the same again, not just for the parents but the children taken, the new baby and any future ones, grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins, friends like me and my kids... the repercussions are huge. It is terrifying the untouchable power these people had. I agree haystack others will come on soon enough laughing that it's nonsense and there's nothing corrupt and SWs are just trying to help poor families and save vulnerable children... well look at the number that gat taken or put on plans each year. You SERIOUSLY believe there are THAT MANY genuinely abusive parents in the U.K. Who deserve to lose their kids?? Wow what an horrendous society we live in, why would anyone have children if that were true. All I'd say to those people is just hope it never happens to you or your friends or family because I wouldn't wish what's happened to my friends on my worst enemy. I don't know how they are still breathing, I couldn't, their strength is incredible to keep going after what these bastards did to them.

You know what, I DID take my youngest to the GP after this happened for something minor, tummy bug that lasted longer than I liked and a very high temperature, and the GP made me strip her naked and examined wvery tiny part of her body and commented that a birth mark she still has 2 years later couldn't possibly be a birth mark and was some sort of injury and gave me the Spanish Inquisition for it with a very distrustful look and put a big old red note on the computer. That was enough to make me scared of how easily it could happen.

Think its called oppression, Youreyoury.

OK. You just carry on not getting your kids medical attention when needed then.

And yes, I do have a clue. I know parents who've sworn blind they didn't do anything to their kids (except leave them alone for a week with the dog as a babysitter) and kids who can't be around adult men and kids who have burn marks up and down their arms and legs. So do fuck off.

And no, I'm not a social worker so don't even bother.

Ok then the doctor was clearly looking for excuses to take your kid into care. Why?

If a doctor wanted my child fully naked for a tummy bug id be asking why, not worrying about them being "snatched'.

I think there's a lot more abusive parents than teachers/social workers who completely fabricate child protection concerns for no reason.

Another friend had a call from a SW after a trip to A&E because her toddler pulled some heavy books off a shelf and gave herself a big old nasty bump on her head. Another friend had a call because a neighbour reported that the kids cry a lot. Another had a call because her daughter was prone to a lot of bugs and had quite a bit of time off school. All these parents were excellent parents doing nothing wrong but when you get that call it's TERRIFYING. And when you've seen how easily it can happen to someone personal and close that you KNOW are innocent it is a living nightmare. Even my neighbour's who don't personally know this family have thought twice about taking their kids in after hearing about it. It's too much. People have got in the press because someone reported them for their toddlers refusing to put on a hat or a coat or throwing a tantrum or lost their socks ffs, one I remember was a woman whose toddler liked to see the bus pull up outside their house and once watched from the window but he was naked! Reported for being naked in their own house??? I saw a grandmother get swarmed on by 4 police officers in a shopping centre because someone rang them because the kid threw a tantrum and the grandmother tapped him on the bum over a thick nappy and jeans! I don't smack and don't agree with smacking but I saw it and didn't think it was abuse! She was terrified, didn't speak English and had to strip the boy naked in the shopping centre to show his bum with no mark on it! That's wrong.

Whatever Youreyouryouare, keep on living in dolly daydream cloud cuckoo land if you like, you don't know me of these families, maybe it's a particularly overzealous county I live in, I don't know but just pray it never happens to you.

And Thisjustinno you seriously think just because of their job title they can't lie? There's bad eggs in every basket, I met that head and thought they were a bit false and overly sickly saccharin but I didn't think they'd be capable of the outright lies I read in the statements and reports I saw when my friends asked me to help. It was disgusting.

AllPart, the point is that all but one of the cases you cite left the children concerned with their parents. If anything it proves that you don't have cause for the concerns you feel: those cases didn't result in children being "snatched". Yes, people in schools and A&E are cautious, but would you want it any different? Closing their eyes to things leads to awful tragedies like Baby P.

I know a woman whose children now live with their father (so not adopted) who tells everyone he cruelly snatched them and then used her long term illness against her. She is middle class, articulate, Oxford degree, plausible. But her children have been very damaged by her. Both have attachment disorders, despite a close relationship with their dad. Concerns were raised about her parenting by social services, both her children's schools, neighbours, the children's psychologist and her own, and medical health professionals. More than one said they would want to see the children on the 'at risk' register if they lived with her. She was utterly unable to put the children's needs before her own, and had demonstrated this time and again. In court the evidence against her was so strong that her barrister advised her to concede as the judge was going to impose more restrictive contact than her ex was offering, which she did. But she never told anyone that, and in fact said she was appealing the decision, even though that wasn't possible.

Pretty much everyone who knows her uses her as an example of the horribly unfair family court system. The perfect caring mum. She doesn't mean badly really, but has absolutely no insight into her own behaviour, and doesn't recognise it when reflected back at her, so completely believes it's all lies. It's horribly sad.