About partners on the ward after childbirth?

[hullabaloo234]

Booked in for ELCS for breech baby.

Just going through this week's post and find a letter from the hospital about what to do/not do prior to the op, what time to arrive etc.

At the back is a letter for my "support person", with a list of do's and don'ts for their stay on the ward with me after my section.

Sorry, WTF?! I love DP dearly but not a chance do I want him or more importantly a load of other blokes on the ward.

I was already going to discharge myself the following morning but was realistic about staying a bit longer if needed- bollocks to that I am definitely leaving as soon as my catheter is out and I can walk again!

Am I the only person who thinks this is really bloody unreasonable?!

It was lovely chatting to the other new mummies when it was just us and the ward had no visitors,

May have been 'lovely' for you, it sounds like my idea of hell on earth. Why is it acceptable to be horrified at the idea of men seeing you leaking, bloody and messy but we're all supposed agree it's 'lovely' for other strange women to see you like that (and have other women tell you to 'shut that fucking baby up' etc) It's not fucking 'lovely' for me, so why is wanting proper privacy considered so much less important than just chucking the men out?

I see were still focused on letting men bond with babies. This is not the purpose of post natal wards, nor should it be any consideration.

Its not the only purpose, but I think should be a consideration. You may think 'screw what's best for the babies, this is all about the adult women' but that doesn't mean every mother will agree with you. There should be consideration that in most cases a baby has two parents and both parents have to bond and learn to care for the newborn, and that means giving them proper privacy.

I can't believe some women are eulogising the 70's model, and would rather a complete stranger took their baby so they can have a rest than the babies other parent. No wonder women end up being default parent.

So if you have your baby during the day, you can have your partner there to help when you simply can't and the staff simply can't do it all. But if you are "fucking selfish" enough to have your baby in the middle of the night, you and the baby can just struggle on until visiting hours?

Oh temporary do please stop the PA extrapolation. OBVIOUSLY no one thinks it's selfish to give birth at night 🙄

Here's what happened at my hospital and I actually thought this was NHS policy - I gave birth at 1am, had a bit of stitching up/bed changing/cleaning us all up after, and because it was late and he was tired (and would have been dangerous to drive) the MWs allowed DH to stay on a reclining chair next to me, while I was still in the delivery room. They kept me in there til 7am, then took me to postnatal and he went home for some more rest.

This to me is a good policy - i.e. Allow men to stay in the delivery rooms if it's a night time birth but scarper once she's in postnatal, unless she's admitted within visiting hours.

The more I read this thread the more I just think some people couldn't and won't give a shit about other mothers. They're using red herrings - such as no HCPs, women are creepy too, my man doesn't want to look at you - to cover the fact that actually, they want their way and because it's something we don't do often, they don't have to care a great deal about other women's experience. They're in for a few days getting their way and then bugger off and don't have to worry about it again for a good few years when they have another child. The feelings of others are of no consequence to them and they never have to be. They don't want to bother campaigning for better maternity care, not because "there's no point", but because they get what they want now and well "I'm alright Jack".

Being a mother doesn't automatically make people selfless, and until we ALL come together with a common purpose then nothing will change.

On that note I will report this thread to flag if MN would be interested in championing a campaign for better maternity care. The stories on this thread have made me petrified for January when I give birth, I could weep for the awful care that mothers receive that no other patient seems to in the same way and I don't just want to moan about it any more I want action.

Its not the only purpose, but I think should be a consideration.

Not only is it not the only purpose, it's not the purpose at all. The post natal wards is there for women to recover after childbirth. That's what it literally is for. Fathers can already be there for 12 hours, usually. That's plenty of time. And then they can bond all they like at home.

It's not like a dinosaur hatching in the cartoons where they instantly say "mama!" to the first thing they see and develop a bond with it.

Just seen the DM FFS. And comments as compassionate as ever, sneering at women wanting privacy and good care. Oh well my comment made it on a screenshot, should I expect a pay check? Wankers.

It was me who mentioned the 1970s and I wasn't eulogising about it, I specifically said that it wouldn't work these days. The point I was making was that women were deemed to be patients who were in need of assistance, not as some sort of nuisances who get in the way.

I am also wondering if this isn't also about the fact that no man ever gives birth so who cares about what women go through

I think this hits the nail square on the head.

Can we all just imagine for a moment if men gave birth. There'd be 2 years maternity leave starting at 3 months pregnancy, private rooms for all, pain relief on tap (not this "see how well you manage" crap) and postnatal wards would be 5* spas with 3 week stays.

Certainly not and excpectatio to be home 6 hours after you've been tore in half, carry on doing school runs and dishes and women would certainly not get told "well done" after it all!

I sincerely doubt that men would be wringing their hands about making it a bonding experience for mothers either.

Nor would they be told, with the addition of an eye roll, "men do it every day, it's not an illness, what makes you so special".

I think asking for other hypothetical al examples would make quite a funny thread but it would be so so depressing as it's very true. No one gives a shit about maternity care because it's something women exclusively go through. Men don't care becausenot never affects them. We've been conditioned to believe women's needs don't matter, and some of the biggest believers of this are women themselves. Inmean to read a MW of all people say on this thread that "women who give birth are not ill" just about sums it up. I want to have more kids after this and I'm not allowed to have a home birth. I have a DD, I don't want her mistreated in 30 years time if she has children. i can only imagine what services are like then. I want better trained staff , maybe the MWs can tell us their views but perhaps they are treated so badly in their profession because again it's one that's usually a 'woman's job'?

Cherry you're quite lucky that the staff used their initiative and allowed your partner to stay.

I gave birth at 1am via a cat 1 emergency section and my partner left us 1 hour after they'd put me on the ward! 3am! I didn't have a clue what I was doing, the lights were off, the nursing staff was minimum and they just wheeled me on the ward and left. No catheter stand to get about, no help with the baby, no response to my buzzer and I was in a bay on my own so I couldn't even ask any other mum to help. I was soaking blood through the bed sheets and when I eventually got myself up blood just gushed out and I had to change my baby and he wouldn't stop crying. I was totally naive about babies I didn't even know how to burp them, I wasn't sure how to breastfeed or when I should do it and if I was safe to sleep because he'd had heart issues during labour resulting in the section and no doctor would come until the morning to explain what happened. It's quite easy for people to call women who give birth selfish but would you say it to anyone else who suffered neglectful treatment? The issue isn't women who have suffered, it's the nursing that was inadequate. If I had the help I needed I would of gladly waved my partner away at night.

If we could plan births and tell all women to give birth at 8am and then your partner can help for those gruelling first 12 hours while you recover from MAJOR surgery then I think the problem is solved. But not everyone is that lucky.

"This to me is a good policy - i.e. Allow men to stay in the delivery rooms if it's a night time birth but scarper once she's in postnatal, unless she's admitted within visiting hours."

And if the hospital needs the delivery room because it's too busy to let one woman recover in there for hours?

I had a 24 hour failed induction, then had to wait 3 hours for a C-section because the operating theatres were full. DD finally arrived at 4am; they stitched me up and wheeled us straight back onto the ward. I was totally and utterly out of it until about 8am when I was conscious enough to ring my dad, and even then I talked total gibberish at him. It was about 2pm before I could stand up and try to shuffle to the end of the room. What would I have done with DD during that time if DP couldn't have been there? She certainly wouldn't have been breastfed, because it was him who squeezed colostrum into a syringe and fed her, and she certainly wouldn't have been changed, because he did that...

But according to you, I'm "fucking selfish" for having him there because it was not during standard visiting hours. Can't you see that it's not helpful to make that sort of accusation?! You're not going to help women or get them to agree with you if you refuse to see that there is an alternative point of view and get shouty when they take that point of view. Especially when it's stemming from worry about the baby and the baby's needs, not themselves!

Sorry cherry but your being dramatic and absurd. You've turned the issue into one of sexism when its in fact an issue of inadequate care. Men suffer on wards too ya know. I visited my Dad on a stroke ward for month's and it was men only. Men were left to suffer awfully. Many went without meals and left to sleep through meal time as it was easier. Buzzers were ignored of men who were practically locked inside paralysed bodies. My Dad was told to soil himself rather then taken to a toilet as understaffed and nappies were used.

This is a problem in many areas of the NHS.

No one is asking you to bond with anyone

I was responding to previous posters who had listed 'bonding' with other women on the ward as a good reason to not have men on the wards.

they will want as much privacy as you

Given how many posters think that a solution to the problem of no curtains is 'get rid of the men' its pretty clear that other women have vastly different ideas about what counts as privacy.

until we ALL come together with a common purpose then nothing will change.

And while your common purpose includes the notion that babies dont need their fathers, and that privacy is no longer relevant if it's 'only women' invading it, then some other women (like me) won't be getting on board.

Why can't we campaign for proper privacy and dignity for all women who have given birth? And for proper attentive healthcare for those that don't have anyone to hand them the baby, help them to the toilet etc?

Even zoo animals get medical attention from vets and vet nurses if something goes wrong with a birth
This comment is so true and really brings home just how wrong the situation actually is.

At times, this thread is almost pulsing with hatred and fear of men.

Persian - the problem was I woke up to find my baby missing and no Idea where the hell she was!!
I see, obviously now I understand why you panicked.

Sorry for not understanding you earlier.

no one is saying fathers do not matter

but the priority is a woman's recovery from birth so she is able to take care of their baby, this is important for feeding and for bonding it is absolutely essential that a woman gets some rest so her body can work in the way it is intended to (that is if she is b/f)

And while your common purpose includes the notion that babies dont need their fathers, and that privacy is no longer relevant if it's 'only women' invading it, then some other women (like me) won't be getting on board.

What on earth are you on about? She didn't say that at all. Stop projecting your issues on her.

It's the money though, innit...

There was an article in the Standard saying that the average non-complicated birth costs £1,800 per baby, and there are more babies being born now than in previous years - eg 11,000 a month in London. even if none of those were complicated births, that would be £19,800,000 per month just for London, never mind the rest of the country.

And a planned C-section is about £2,400, so if you said that 25% were C-sections, you're looking at £14,850,000 plus £6,600,000 for C-sections = London alone is spending £21,450,000 per month on babies.

Or on another site I checked, it said that there are 2,200 babies born every day in the uk. I tried to multiply that by £1,800 but my calculator doesn't have enough noughts!

it is not pulsing with hatred of men oh the drama

most of us are in love or have loved the man we have had babies with (or men)

we just feel at this point in time it is absolutely essential that women feel as comfortable as possible so she can recover and establish feeding with her baby

At times, this thread is almost pulsing with hatred and fear of men

Go on, treat us to a few examples and explain why they're pulsing with hatred of members.

Then explain why women having nothing to fear from men.

I'm not really afraid of or intimidated by men, most of the ones I know are OK and many of them are really quite fantastic.

Doesn't prevent me from understanding how another woman with much worse life experiences than me may indeed be afraid of men. Some women sadly have very good reason to be afraid of men. The problem in that situation isn't that the woman is being precious it's that men have treated her so brutally. Maybe if the blame for that lay more with the perpetrator than the victim it would help.

One thing that I would like to know is why has maternity care changed so much is it that every NHS trust is trying to save money or is it that there are so many more births for maternity wards to cope with now?

Could it even be a combination of the two?

And if the hospital needs the delivery room because it's too busy to let one woman recover in there for hours

Then I don't think he should be allowed to stay over in a ward where other women are. This IMO should never be OK. My point was as a general rule it's a good one to keep mum in delivery room for as long as possible.

But according to you, I'm "fucking selfish" for having him there because it was not during standard visiting hours. Can't you see that it's not helpful to make that sort of accusation?! You're not going to help women or get them to agree with you if you refuse to see that there is an alternative point of view and get shouty when they take that point of view. Especially when it's stemming from worry about the baby and the baby's needs, not themselves!

I think its selfish to want men there 24/7 despite knowing other women are strongly against it and those valid reasons, and to throw them under the bus in the process. Please read the stories of women's experience with men there - your DH may be kind and considerate it far too many are or and others shouldn't have to suffer for this.

Bauble I am not being dramatic, don't be so naive to think it's not about women. People have said their DHs had abdominal surgery and got better care in the same hospital and more pain relief than when they had a c-section. Are you seriously telling me there isn't a culture problem with the way new mothers are treated, and the way giving birth is treated? Tell me what other procedure where your skin tears and you're in abject agony, and you lose pints of blood, that they try and turf you out your bed 6 hours later with 2 paracetamol and no further care?

Like I say we all need to identify this is a women's problem and work to make it better, not downplay it and say it's nothing to do with being a woman