AIBU to think John Humphrys is going to annoy a lot of mums this am...

[suffolkblonde29]

Today presenter John Humphrys is quoted in The Times this morning talking about his ex-wife -

"Humphrys describes Wilding as “about as near perfect a mother as you can get” – a woman who “got pregnant and said, ‘I’m stopping work and I won’t start work again until the children – however many there may be – are in university.’ And she never did.”

Because that's how to be a perfect mother?! Oh gawd, my DD has no chance....

My job is fulfilling in various ways - of stretches my intellect and personal skills, its given opportunities for travel to places I wouldn't otherwise have visited and it's a socially useful (indeed necessary) work.

If I didn't work, of course I'd be able to get intellectual stimulation from other sources- but it isn't an either/or is it? Fact is, on a working day I can still go home and read a book or have a discussion with someone which is going to widen my thoughts....

I think the problem arises when people see things in very black and white terms- e.g. Not working is completely liberating / working is imprisonment.

Life is a whole series of experiences and is there to be lived as fully as possible. If you're in a job that bores the shit out of you or where you don't feel valued, ask yourself why you're doing it and then change things

It is only an opinion but it is nice for someone to say something positive about an ex. And nice for his grown up children to hear their dad say something nice about their now dead mother.

I've been a SAHM
WOHM PT
WOHM FT

and to be honest I've been a fairly bog standard mum at every stage.

I have to be honest the whole role model thing has to be the biggest pile of pish I have ever have ever heard.

I agree Grow. I think the value of working, particularly in low paid jobs is something pushed by the protestant work ethic during the industrial revolution to convince people there was some kind of nobility in their toil. It's a great con and it lined the pockets of a lot of big businesses, kept the upper classes in the manner they liked to live and drove capitalism. The culture of it has become ingrained, especially when you add in the American dream idea.

I don't feel i contributed to anything of particular value in most of my jobs. I think i was a faceless cog working in a just above min wage jobs, which women specifically were driven into by necessity and the illusion of adding some value to the fabric of society was sold to them so they would continue. I've had to endure a fair amount of embarrassingly patronising motivational talks/group games while working in call centres (where they time your toilet breaks etc) as if any of us are really there for some kind of fulfilment. Or during the interview process be asked 'why you want to work here?' and not be allowed to say 'for the benjamins of course'. I just wish people could be more honest about some jobs. Some jobs are miserable, a lot of them 'womens jobs' and i don't think many are punching the air on their way out thinking 'i really added value to society today'.

yes, jobs like that sound soul destroying and I suspect for those doing it, it's just a means to an end.

Most people hate their jobs and most people do not have careers.

If I won the lottery I would never work ever again.

Some jobs are soul destroying for men and women. That's a separate issue to the idea a "perfect mother" (not father) is one who gives up work and stays at home, which limits women, stifles our potential and is clearly an incorrect assertion.

Full time parent" is also a term I don't like.

So what would you prefer then ? Someone who does not pay other people to look after their children ? What noun would be suitable in order to distinguish ?

is clearly an incorrect assertion.

No it isn't. It's only an incorrect assertion if you were to read it as meaning it's the only way to be a perfect mother. Besides as I think we already established no one would really claim to either be or have had a "perfect" mother or father would they ?

My parents look after me fine thanks, why are you obsessed with my posts and constantly posting towards me in the same aggressive manner when I've ignored you for weeks? You're very unpleasant.

Full time parent is a daft term- once you become a mum or dad there's no looking back!

You're very unpleasant.

Another thread where someone who disagrees with you gets insulted ! Here's a tip, maybe you could preface your posts with "I am not willing to have anyone challenge me on my opinion" you might get on better that way. And for the record I did not suggest your parents did anything other that "look after you fine" you are reading stuff into posts that you want to, because you like to be rude.

Most people are just trying to get by and do the best they can for their families, be it working or staying at home. I think calling women terrible role models for making a different life choice to you is really fucking rude. Not that all SAHMs necessarily chose it anyway. I didn't but a child with SN who can't cope in school has somewhat limited my choices.

As a previous poster has pointed out, JH is from an older generation and this comment largely reflects that (also perhaps being kind about the deceased mother of some of his children). It reminds me of some of the comments made by retired former high-ranking military men back in the '90s that there would be chaos if women were allowed near any role near the combat zone as the men would try and protect them to the detriment of everything else. As time has proved, actually younger generations of men are able to interact with women equally as colleagues and this has largely not proved the case in professional areas such as front-line medical roles. Admittedly there are still issues in some units, but this is maybe due to misogyny rather than the reasons they cited.
Ideally I would prefer both parents to work part-time and share the childcare, an absent always at work dad is not compensated for by having 100% of the mum's time, and it puts half of the couple in a bad place financially if the relationship breaks down. Unfortunately the employment and financial worlds are not set up to sensibly accommodate that option yet.

If I won the lottery I would never work ever again.

I'd join you Queen except I don't do the lottery. I enjoy my job mostly, it's what I always wanted to do, but it's work to pay the bills and if I didn't have bills I would be ecstatic to never have to work again.

I agree with MrsKoala and grow. Most of us do not do fulfilling work that makes a difference to the world for good or for ill.

Hasn't JH separated from both mothers He's had children with anyway? So being a 'perfect mother' didn't make for a mutually fulfilling relationship (trying to get back to original point of thread!)

growapear you are unpleasant. From your first interactions with me you were rude, patronising and aggressive and you've persisted in that manner since, even once I stopped responding to you altogether because there was no point. You don't want to debate, you want to derail and attack any women who don't agree with you. As for your "tip" and "you might get on better that way", how patronising again. I'm "getting on" fine. Oh and you calling me rude is hilarious given how you talk to people you dislike.

I'm with Pear, It is a shame that the world has changed to the point where is is considered normal for parents to outsource the care of their own children to third parties.

I understand why people, especially women feel the need to defend their choices and tell themselves that this is ok, desirable even. I think deep down everybody knows it isn't ideal.

I find it actually quite sad that some mothers actively seem to want to get away from their own children. I understand that the cost of living is such that some have no choice, but to opt out of parenting just because you CBA is really quite wrong IMO.

They need us for such a short time of our lives, is it really too much of an ask that they be prioritised for those few short years?

estateagentfromhell what an incredible post. Would you accuse fathers of "actively wanting to get away from their children"? My mum works full time and is a brilliant parent. I doubt she feels the need to defend her choice to anyone but I do because you're criticising specifically mothers who work. They're not "opting out of parenting" at all unless you think the majority of fathers do

IAmAmy

perhaps you could explain, in non patronising fashion of course, how exactly I have "derailed" this thread !?

Oh and you calling me rude is hilarious given how you talk to people you dislike.

Hilarious eh ? right.

Meh I'm totally secure in my choice to work so I don't care what anyone thinks. I love my career, not every day but it sure beats singing 'the wheels on the bus' at the local library or clock watching whilst watching 'in the night garden' for me.

I guess if I was working in Macca's or cleaning offices I'd feel differently.

A few people have said most people hate their jobs. If that's the case why do women get to opt out and leave their DH's in soul destroying jobs which they cry on their way to each morning? Surely you'd share the burden so they don't have to be the only person responsible for carrying the family whilst hating their jobs. Doesn't sound too fair.

Why are you still posting towards me? I find you very unpleasant and it's odd you persist in attacking a teenager in this manner.

"Full time parent" is also a term I don't like. My parents aren't part time parents because they work.

Agreed. And full time mother is even worse.

I was brought up by my mother and maternal grandparents. My grandparents were farmers and my grandmother worked on the farm. My mother worked outside the home. All of them were full time parents to me and it has instilled in me that being financially independent is the most liberating thing a woman can do.

slightlyperturbed- excellent post.

I suspect the relationships where the woman has no career aspirations and the man has a high flying career which is conveniently facilitated by non working wife, are few and far between in the 21st century. Most people I know partner someone of similar abilities and intellect; people often meet their partner at uni or in the workplace anyway so is it really surprising if they don't want black and white SAH/WOH roles?

Actually I'm not even sure being the 21st century has a lot to do with it... I suspect back in the 'good old days' of the 60s/70s when i grew up, there were thousands of mothers going quietly mad with frustration at the lack of maternity rights, regulated childcare and career opportunities, and probably just as many men who felt frustrated to be pigeonholed as default earner and provider when they might have wanted more hands on time as a parent.

And btw us working mums have been around long enough now that many of us have adult, married children with happy and successful lives - id think we'd know by now if we'd caused them emotional damage by doing the (totally normal) thing of going to work! Happy to report that if you looked at my grown up kids and their contemporaries who had a mix of full time, part time or non working parents, you wouldn't be able to tell the difference

Lass I agree entirely. My mother is very much a full time mother and has a great career. I'm very grateful for all she does and the ethic she's helped instil in me.

Right, thanks to this thread I've discovered that you can sign up to read one or two articles a week in The Times free of charge, and I've done so. Anyone else who wants to do the same, or has a subscription, here is the link to the article.

It's a very long article indeed and it's about his career. There is only a passing mention of his first wife and it is indeed the case that the journalist has chosen to put these two quotes together. We have no idea what else was said. The journalist herself says that she was with him for hours and hours.

This is the quote, in context:

Humphrys was with his ex-wife Edna Wilding when she died of pancreatic cancer in 1997. “I think she was pleased that I was there. I think.”

Was he a good husband? He takes a sharp breath. “That’s a bit near the bone. Of course I wasn’t, because we would’ve remained married if I were.” They had two children, Christopher, a cellist, and Catherine, “a tree hugger”, and Humphrys describes Wilding as “about as near perfect a mother as you can get” – a woman who “got pregnant and said, ‘I’m stopping work and I won’t start work again until the children – however many there may be – are in university.’ And she never did.”

Also of interest is that much later in the interview there's this bit:

...he growls about the BBC and sexism, saying, for example, that he hopes that they replace the outgoing editor of Today, Jamie Angus, with a woman. “If I was lord of all we survey, I would say, ‘Give me a reason why there is no woman capable of doing this job.’ The idea that we’ve never had a female DG or a female leader of the Labour Party … It’s wrong. It’s completely wrong.”

I ask about the dearth of female presenters his age. “Do we regard women of 40 as past it?” he challenges. “Well, we’ve got a bit beyond that, but not enough beyond it. It is preposterous that people like Anna Ford – or whoever, you can pluck any name; Joan Bakewell is a good example – aren’t still there. Absolutely bonkers.”