AIBU to think John Humphrys is going to annoy a lot of mums this am...

[suffolkblonde29]

Today presenter John Humphrys is quoted in The Times this morning talking about his ex-wife -

"Humphrys describes Wilding as “about as near perfect a mother as you can get” – a woman who “got pregnant and said, ‘I’m stopping work and I won’t start work again until the children – however many there may be – are in university.’ And she never did.”

Because that's how to be a perfect mother?! Oh gawd, my DD has no chance....

I would say his opinion is not untypical of his age and socio-economic group. These days few can afford to hold those opinions and women (thank goodness), have many more options for work than they did back then. Back in the 1970s, when my DM got pregnant with me, she gave up work and never went back. That was common back then, even expected. And JH is 10 years older than my DM, so he's just typical of his era really.

That may be John humphries view of what makes a perfect mother. But I'm glad I married a man who values my skills in my work life as well as my qualities in parenting. And who values his own Qualities in parenting as much as his work skills.

If couples are truly both fulfilled In a partnership where the husband has a career and the woman gives hers up until the children go to university, then good luck to them. I imagine most couples in the 21st century want a more shared balance in life though.

Oh hang on... john humphries and the 'perfect mother' split up so I guess it can't have been totally fulfilling after all!!

Actually, he's 5 years older than my DM

Who cares what he thinks! He's just trying to be nice about his ex-wife. The fact he went on to marry or form relationships with women with careers shows I don't think he has a model of a perfect woman, at the very least.

I'm sure if you asked my children would you prefer it if I stayed at home, was really into cooking delicious home-baked bread, was always there at every play/event at school, whenever you come home, they'd say yes. That's because my children or perhaps all children are quite selfish and want their lives to be as nice as possible and easy as possible. They'd also like to do no housework/chores/help out either.

That's not their lives though! I work as I love my job, and need the sense of purpose it gives me, especially as they are going to be off and away in the next few years. I think it's good for them to understand that a happy family is one where everyone's basic needs are met, and that mums needs are as important as anyone elses. Hopefully they'll then see their own needs as important if and when they go on to have partners and families. If my need was not to work, to spend a lot of time at home and to do lots of home-making type stuff, like my mum did, and we had the financial resources for me not to work/stay home, then that would be important too. Their needs were very intense in the first couple of years, which is when I worked less, but that was two years out of an entire career (as my husband took time out second time around).

I might ask them later if they think I should stay home and not work! I'll be intrigued by their answers.

Did he specifically say that she was a perfect mother BECAUSE she did those things, or did he say (a) that she was a perfect mother, and (b) that she did those things, and then the journalist has put the quotes in together to make it look as though he was specifically implying a connection between the two things?

Lovelyskin- my children are all adult now and whenever this comes up in discussion, they see it as completely normal that i kept my career going.

I have always found the idea of enjoying work quite rare and a bit of a middle class luxury. Growing up i knew very few people who liked their job (men and women) but did it for sheer necessity. Even now most people i know don't have careers, but jobs. Jobs they hate. A lot of these are also degree educated - but not great degrees from not great unis and have ended up in soulless low paid admin jobs or low paid care jobs. i wonder how many supermarket, factory, delivery, admin, care etc workers would say they loved their career? I would say these are the majority of working class people in this country - not paediatric nurses etc.

Fortunately for me my dh is one of the few people i know who has a career that he loves, so i haven't trapped him into working while i stay at home. I don't see educations sole purpose to get employment. Not many people i know use what they studied in their jobs (old english/art history/archeology/media) but it was education for education sake. Which i think is fine.

As for perfect mother, it's different for different people. I hated my mum working when all my friends had their mums pick them up and come to assemblies etc. I felt very hard done by. But as others on this thread have said, they felt proud.

Mrskoala- well of course working is about earning as well as other benefits! And many jobs are socially very useful, if not essential- it's part of the fabric of life.

Loving every aspect and minute of your work, and hating every minute of it, are the extremes of the spectrum. Most people are probably somewhere in the middle. And as working is a necessity for the vast majority of adults it makes sense to aim for work which will provide positive dimensions to your life- whether that be intellectual stimulation, the satisfaction of doing a socially valuable job, the social life with your colleagues...

Realistically Our children are likely to have working lives which span 45 or 50 years.... so it makes sense to aim high and want something that will provide other benefits as well as the pay cheque

Is he saying she was a perfect mother, but is silent on her abilities as a wife?

Maybe JH wanted to be a SAH dad!

MrsKoala I think though, that women fall particularly into the trap of having to take on uninteresting jobs below their ability level because they are mothers, need to work-part time, society expects them not to prioritise their career and so on. I know loads of extremely well-qualified and very intelligent women working in dull boring jobs because the hours suited them when the children were little and now they are trapped doing them as they are not on any type of career track.

Lass, I am a sahp. The way I have raised my dc wrt the issue of work and relationships is that it is important to have an education and a choice (if it can possibly be managed financially) . That money needs to be earned and children need to be looked after and however a family chooses to organise that is fine, so long as everyone is happy. I think I am a pretty good role model. I am teaching my dc not to be judgemental arses about other people's life choices.
I don't think woh is the be all and end all. It's great if you want to but if you don't want to and can afford not to then that is also fine. From my own perspective, I think being able to meet my dc from school is nice, as is not being so knackered from work (used to be a sec school teacher) that I can concentrate on getting my own kids through their exams rather than worrying about other people's kids.

Ridiculous opinion. Fair enough if it worked for them but the insinuation that mothers who work are in any way not good mothers is hugely insulting as well as seeking to limit women. Why are fathers never given this kind of message? My mother is a successful professional. She could be a SAHM given my father's salary (as he could be a SAHD with hers though would have to make some sacrifices) and is a wonderful mum and role model to me. Supportive, always there for my brothers and I, hard working and inspiring. She works because she wants to and she needs to be challenged, she wants to earn money and be financially independent. It makes me so angry when I read statements like these suggesting a "perfect mum" doesn't work. I'm so glad she does and is someone I can aspire to be like in future.

Well from personal experience I know more people who hate every single aspect of work and do it purely to pay bills. I've had about 20 jobs in my life and only about 3 that I didn't loath every minute of. Some I used to cry on my way in every day. Others I tolerated I suppose. Most people I know hate their colleagues and can't wait to get to Friday to self medicate! Maybe that's just the public sector tho.

suffolk your husband's life needs to change when you go back to work too. Share drop offs and pick ups and all child and housework outside of work hours. If his life is carrying on exactly as before then something's not right!

I don't particularly like the man. He left his first wife after a series of affairs and she subsequently died from a degenerative disease. However, I do think he was trying to be nice about his children's late mother in this case and pay her a tribute. He quite often says nice things about her, in some way trying to atone for his behaviour perhaps?

See I'm foreign, and in my mother's social set (born early 1940s), all women worked even after they became parents. Some only worked PT, but everyone was like H-Clinton & had to work, probably worked quite hard. To pay the mortgage -- being a SAHM was a luxury for their parents born before 1930. My dad gushes about how amazing it is that one of my cousins got to be a SAHM for a while (that cousin is married to a guy with very successful business, I have about 30 cousins). Statements on thread about SAHM being a recent common norm, I don't relate to any of that.

But I don't like people quoted out of context (which JH is on this thread). Also he's talking about his ex doing what she saw as her duty; doing one's duty is mostly a noble trait. It sounds like article is a personal perspective that JH is giving, to and from people who share that same background. It's close to meaningless for someone like me, though.

I think if you hate your job your views on giving it up are going to be very different to those who love their jobs. My job is very stressful and frequently makes me cry (teacher) but I love it and without it I would be extremely depressed (my mood went up 1000 fold when I went back to work after mat leave).

The problem for everyone is that work doesn't fit with raising children. If I ruled the world it will be the norm for all parents (Mums and dads) to go part time after children and share parenting equally, and 'part timers' would not be considered to not be putting enough effort into their careers and would be able to progress.

That sounds lovely qumquat.
After ds1 was born I did do a job share for a while (teaching). It was lovely.

Lovelyskin- sadly that's true. I know quite a few women who are 'underemployed' and remain in low paid jobs which are way below their abilities. It seems to be far less true for men. The middle aged men I know who are in this type of job don't tend to have professional qualifications or a university education.

Another thing is the idea the work is more "fulfilling" than being a SAHP. What makes it fulfilling ? I would say it's simply the idea that it is valued and that you are rewarded monetarily and verbally for providing this value. All I'm saying is that this value is largely illusory IMO. The perceived "value" of being a full time parent on the other hand has decreased over the last few years to the point that when someone says that a perfect parent is one who gives up their career they can be said to be "ridiculous" and no one will bat an eyelid.

grow it is more fulfilling intellectually for me, I feel a sense of purpose beyond my own immediate family, I feel like I am contributing to wider social debates and policies. Lots of parents based at home also do things that have a wider purpose- caring for relatives, doing voluntary work, setting up or participating in community initiatives. It's not about money, although I do work for money obviously. I would work even if very wealthy though, and my job isn't very well-paid compared with say being a doctor, so it's hardly all about monetary value.

I don't see this as 'more fulfilling' than parenthood, so I've done both.

Did he specifically say that she was a perfect mother BECAUSE she did those things, or did he say (a) that she was a perfect mother, and (b) that she did those things, and then the journalist has put the quotes in together to make it look as though he was specifically implying a connection between the two things?

This. I'm not going to condemn JH without seeing the full article, which I can't, because it's behind the Times paywall.

Why is being a working mother seen as being a good role model while a SAHM is not?

If it's up to each family individually then why is one "good" and the other "bad"? Surely its sensible to educate your children about all the issues & options and how to make '
decisions on balancing childcare/paid work/house work & admin within a family.

I think JH was just trying say something nice about his dead ex-wife who brought up their children 20 plus years ago I imagine.

"Full time parent" is also a term I don't like. My parents aren't part time parents because they work.