AIBU to think John Humphrys is going to annoy a lot of mums this am...

[suffolkblonde29]

Today presenter John Humphrys is quoted in The Times this morning talking about his ex-wife -

"Humphrys describes Wilding as “about as near perfect a mother as you can get” – a woman who “got pregnant and said, ‘I’m stopping work and I won’t start work again until the children – however many there may be – are in university.’ And she never did.”

Because that's how to be a perfect mother?! Oh gawd, my DD has no chance....

moggiek

Right, so whatever works for you is fine. Some people I guess never like working all that much in the first place is my point really, I think there are a lot of people in this boat IME.

If you're right that working is a constant slog with few personal or intellectual positives then wouldn't the ideal be a couple who both work part-time, pear? Isn't it then incredibly selfish for one person - male or female - to stay at home trapping the other at work?

Yes.

My personal experience is very different from yours pear in that most people I know value their work and not just for financial reasons. I realise though that the people I know by and large are degree educated with jobs based on that. The year after uni when I cleaned for a living I would have preferred to be a SAHM.

It is exactly what you said growapear! You said "why would you work if you didnt need to for the money"? Just thinking of the professions of my female friends with children under 18 and they include midwife, paediatric nurse, paediatrician, policewoman, teachers (lots - primary, secondary, special needs), textile designer, consultant to Comic Relief, casting director, actress, book researcher, journalist, transmission director for Channel 4, head of PR for a major charity, careers advisor in a secondary school and so on. Are those meaningless ?

seriously?

Ummm, he has a rather foolish and outdated view of what makes a Perfect Wife, far better suited to a long bygone time.

Go ahead and Report that if you like, means exactly the same thing. Pathetic.

Famalam13

I am also degree educated and work in a well paid professional job. I realise these are my personal views and I am a deeply cynical person :) When I was a teenager I used to get exasperated with grown ups asking "what I wanted to be" or "what i wanted to do" it dawned on me that none of them were really doing what they want - who would really want to be a feckin project manager or an accountant ? People do these things out of practicality - perhaps it is not as hard as a higher paid option, or allows them some balance in their eyes.

I think it is probably the case that doing one of these professional jobs is actually a damn sight easier than bringing up two kids full time.

The idea that everyone can have, or is entitled to a fulfilling career is a middle class lie. I guess my judgement of people is primarily based on their motivations for doing things, not that I'm judging anyone on here.

I felt very like Margaret. My mum worked full time and at the time I was proud she did and couldn't understand the attraction of having a sahm. However, I have always wohm first as a single parent and now as a parent with a partner who is a sahp. My sons would prefer me to be a sahm or at least be there when they come home from school, so they say.
I would, however, not be happy. I think there is another aspect to this too, which is the difficulty sahps have getting back into the workforce if they want to. I have a number of well-qualified friends who are having no luck because of 5-10 years out of the workforce.
The other more obvious aspect is the sexism intrinsic in the expectations around sahp-ing, and the assumption that it will be done by the mother.
On the JH front I am disappointed because of the impression given that this is the best form of mothering. As it's from someone whose views I usually respect and who I admire it's, well, disappointing. I judge him for it, and not well.

I am very much a non cynic so coming at this from a very different perspective pear I know people who genuinely love being project managers and accountants. I am a manager in the health service (please no-one hate me) and I love it. I love problem solving and feeling that o am helping to improve patient care. I won't lie I also love the chance to drink a hot drink, go to the loo in peace and talk about something that isn't bodily fluids or sleep.

bibbitybobbityyhat

You used the word "acceptable" - I am merely giving my opinion, people can do whatever they want, it's not up to me. In my opinion people usually work for money, not because it's fun. If i was given a £1m tomorrow damn sure I wouldn't carry on in my current job because it offered occasional intellectual stimulation and made me feel i was doing something worthwhile.

Maybe I'm in the wrong job

Never understand the notion that unless you are at work you will struggle to fill the hours your kids are at school or be bored. It's bloody lovely being in charge of your own time.

John Humphries is annoying every morning.

Never understand why so much weight is still given to the words of Rich white Establishment men in their 70s. Who cares what they think of the Mother Ideal? Every time they blart out their old fashioned views it bolsters up the status quo and damages women and womens' choices.

I do wonder if a parent who's happy to have the other parent devote themselves entirely to childcare right up to university age is one who doesn't want to do the parenting themselves.

As an observation the only lasting happy relationships that I know, are ones where both parents work/do other things. I know of marriages where the wife had never gone out to work and the husband has worked long hours and they bitterly resent each other.

That is not my experience design.

BellsaRinging

You're right in that our opinions of what makes a good mother are probably based on our own, and mine was a SAHM who went back to work part time to fit in around school. That was very much her choice and it was what she wanted. The idea that she was not a good mother because she didn't teach me and my brother that woman could have careers too is nonsense.

You also raise an interesting point about your sons. Who would be qualified to judge our effectiveness as a parents ? Certainly not me looking at another family...so our children ? You say yourself that your sons would "prefer" it if you were there after school. I know that my own kids would prefer coming home after school or being taken to their sports clubs rather than going to after school club every day, and I'm lucky that we afford to be there for them, if I couldn't afford it I would probably wish I could IYSWIM. But again that is only my opinion, in reality they would be fine if that's what we wanted.

I have a number of well-qualified friends who are having no luck because of 5-10 years out of the workforce.

This is the real problem, which is why things like working from home, or finding a career that would suit working from home/part time if you plan on having a family are advisable for both sexes.

He's just talking about his view of perfect for their own circumstances. He isn't saying it's what all women should do. We can't police opinions until there is only one acceptable view allowed! Live and let live.

I think most men when talking about the dead mother of living children will try to say nice things, won't they? John Humphreys annoys me most mornings intensely but this is not one of those times.

growapear I was a project manager before I had kids and I genuinely loved it. Think of all those bossy organisers there were at your high school - they were all future project managers at heart.

Different strokes I suppose.

If my wife did that I'd be pissed.

My kids need to eat and have s roof over there heads.

Their

Oh dear, should have known better than to open this age-old debate!

Obviously everyone's entitled to their opinions and for some people, having a mum who stays at home throughout their childhood may be the ideal. But for many, many people it's not (for a variety of reasons), and I just find it a bit rich that a successful man who's had a fulfilling career thinks that the best mothers give up their careers as soon as they see the blue line on the pregnancy test. But maybe I'm just feeling a bit jealous as I'm coming to the end of maternity leave and realising how difficult it's going to be keeping my old and interesting job while trying to have time with my baby and pick her up from nursery etc...while my husband just carries on with his work as normal!

He's obviously not considered role model as part of mothering

To echo another poster I secretly think that SAHMs who dedicate all their time to raising and educating and entertaining their children are in fact terrible role models.

Is it "perfect" for a mother to maximise her physical access to her children?

I suggest that there ways to be perfect. It can be perfect for a mother to have a shrewed & cunning career as a community leader, working hard to make the world a better place for her child(ren) & grandchildren (witness Hillary Clinton).

Maybe it's perfect for a mother to seize all opportunities to have lots of money so that her children get the "best" education & holidays (Xenia style).

Another perfect mother is one who works 3-4 jobs to make sure the bills are paid, barely seeing her kids but showing them the value of paying for one's own keep and meeting responsibilities.

Isn't it nice that JH thinks so highly of his ex-wife.

Is there any other reason to read his article?